Why no backgammon discussion?

[zaphod]

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Moreover, Sklansky has pointed out that in backgammon checker mistakes cost you little where as cube mistakes cost you a lot

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In a way this is true. Each cube error you make rates to be more expensive than each checker play error that you make(Your 5 biggest cube errors from a match is likly to be bigger than your 5 biggest checker play errors). But you will have many more opportunities to make checker play errors. So in total i think most(all?) people give up more equity from checker play errors than from cube errors.

[dsaxton]

I'm also curious if there is anyone willing to play live for cash. I live in Arlington, Virginia a few miles from the Pentagon.

Also, is backgammonmasters.com a respectable site to play for money? I've checked out Games Grid, but it appears they make you pay a membership fee just for the privilege of playing for money, which I think is absurd.

[Popeye]

i don't know the point of you posting the diagrams.
if you wanna hear opinions, here there are, i don't know if i'm right or not but lets go:

diagram 1:
normally with this opening roll you make the 3-point, but i think here the best play will be to fight for th 5-point and play 13/5*

diagram2:
i'd probably play 24/21 and 13/9, nut i'm not sure that that is the right play

diagram 3:
two chooses here: 13/11 6/5 or 13/11 24/23.
i guess i would go for 24/13, i once heard that when opponent has the barpoint, its important to split your runners.

diagram4:
openign move 6-4 can be played three diffrent ways
a) 24/18 13/9
b) 24/14
c) 8/2 6/2
I'm not sure what i'll play here, he has only one men back, so you should normally attack, that way i'd choose to make points as fast as possible and choose "c", but then, there is also a point for "b" running, as if he misses, you have both one men back, and equalized the position, nut also a point could be made for "a", it invites a blothitting contest, that is favourable for the one with the most men back (You). i'm not sure what i would play. i think against a top player, i would play 24/14 just to equalize everything, hope for a running game, where i can get lucky, in a position where there is not a lot of skill involved.
against a weak player i'd probably play 24/20 13/9, it is the most complex move, so i have an edge over my weak opponent.

well have you analysed the positions with GNU? and what did he say?

bye, i hope you liked the time i spend at your post, i usually just lurk, or ask qeustions, but rarerly answer, so i felt like i had to do something back, so here it is !

[pzhon]

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i don't know the point of you posting the diagrams.

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I made a typo in the first problem. Instead of just correcting that, I figured I would make it easy for people to see the problems.

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well have you analysed the positions with GNU? and what did he say?

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The answers (based on long rollouts, both mine and Stick's) were in white. Click and drag over white text to reveal it.

Thanks for your thoughts on the problems. Here are some of mine, extending what was in white.

1) Hitting is strong. Stealing 5 pips and half of your opponent's next roll and starting your 5 point are worth more than the "safe" inner board point.

2) When your opponent makes the deuce point, this prepares to attack, and moves away from priming. Splitting steps into the attack, while defending you from a weaker priming threat, so it is anti-thematic. Usually, you should try to prime your opponent after 6-4 is played 8/2 6/2.

3) Although it looks like the bar point is good for a prime, this prepares for an attack more than it prepares to create a prime. Your opponent's 3 spares on the 6 point are hard to use to make points naturally, but they would be good for attacking, and then covering, or for pointing on you. Since your opponent is threatening to attack, not to prime you, and still only has a 1 point board, it is right to slot 13/11 6/5 rather than to split.

4) Running is weak because getting away with it leaves you with a bad position, down in the race and with an outfield blot which takes time to safety. The other plays are less weak.

[pzhon]

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I'm also curious if there is anyone willing to play live for cash. I live in Arlington, Virginia a few miles from the Pentagon.

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I believe there is a club in your area, the Beltway Backgammon Club. I don't know how the club is now, but there have been some strong players there in the past.

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Also, is backgammonmasters.com a respectable site to play for money?


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I don't think so. I'm basing this on the experiences related to me by a backgammon author (and strong player), who complained of (unlabelled) house bots. There have been many discussions on rec.games.backgammon about it, and while some of that can't be trusted, they don't have a good reputation.

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I've checked out Games Grid, but it appears they make you pay a membership fee just for the privilege of playing for money, which I think is absurd.

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Well, they often waive the fee if you play for money. Their software is decent, and a lot of good players play there (which is good practice, at least).

[dsaxton]

Thanks for the information. What site would you recommend in that case?

[pzhon]

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Thanks for the information. What site would you recommend in that case?

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Do you mean other than the three I mentioned earlier in this thread? I haven't been playing backgammon for money online post-legislation, so I don't know the current status, but those are the three with the best reputations.

[Popeye]

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1) Hitting is strong. Stealing 5 pips and half of your opponent's next roll and starting your 5 point are worth more than the "safe" inner board point.


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i don't think those 5 pips are that important in the early stage of the game.
i think it's more about trying to make your own 5 point, and don't give your oppenent the chance to make his 20point.
it does two important things actually in that respect.
early game strategy is all about fighting for the 5 and 20 points in my opinion.

[Skipbidder]

Well, I got the first two right. Other plays didn't really seem to be in contention. Perhaps it is an oversight on my part to think that these plays weren't really close. By the way, have the bots become that pervasive and persuasive that opps are now making the two point?

For the third one, I also played your recommendation. I was "sure" that I was going to be wrong. I'm not sure I've fully flushed out all the Bruce Becker from my system, and 13/11 6/5 is clearly a Becker special. Actually, problem 1 would have been the Becker recommendation as well. I wasn't playing real backgammon in the 70s, but from BB's account, making the 3 point would probably have been the normal play.

I suppose I should ask how you are evaluating moves. Making the 2 point in problem four hurts my brain. I'd play splitter/builder without thinking there was a credible alternative.

Please don't encourage Kit Woolsey to do any more backgammon stuff than he already is. Some of us bridge players really miss his efforts for that game.

[Skipbidder]

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I suppose I should ask how you are evaluating moves.

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Perhaps I should have finished reading the thread and gotten your answer to this question before I asked it.