legal advise for illigal club.

flavio321 · #1 04-13-2007, 09:12 AM

what is the legal consequence of being busted for running an illigal poker club? i was tipped by a low ranking police friend that a survaillance task force has been assigned.

i'm located in nyc

Skallagrim · #2 04-13-2007, 11:21 AM

Here's the link to the NY laws:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/New-York/

Looks to me like the operator of an "illegal" poker game is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor IF poker is a game "in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein." That point can be argued and won in my humble legal opinion. Probably cost more than the likely fine to fight it though.

Grasshopp3r · #3 04-13-2007, 11:44 AM

If you have not been raided, you may avoid being raided. This sounds like the precursor to a protection squeeze, though. If you are worried about getting raided, you should suspend the game and only tell a few people. Then, see who shows up.

Alternatively, can you run a game with no money present? That way, there is nothing of real value for the cops to seize. Also, how would they prove that the game was for moeny? Of course, the trust issues and settlement issues are there.

Landlord79 · #4 04-13-2007, 03:32 PM

As far as not having money present, you'd need to secure the funds off site prior to the game beginning. Doyle Brunson wrote about just such an occasion in his book, and the big loser found ways to get out of paying his debts.

flavio321 · #5 04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you have not been raided, you may avoid being raided. This sounds like the precursor to a protection squeeze, though. If you are worried about getting raided, you should suspend the game and only tell a few people. Then, see who shows up.

Alternatively, can you run a game with no money present? That way, there is nothing of real value for the cops to seize. Also, how would they prove that the game was for moeny? Of course, the trust issues and settlement issues are there.

[/ QUOTE ]

gambling itself is legal in nyc as long as rake is not taken from the pot itself. so most clubs including mine, charge time to run around the legality of it. if im being squeezed ill just move shop. but the biggest concern is that i have a cover business that generates significant income. will that other business, be in danger? can they sieze both business?

flavio321 · #6 04-13-2007, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As far as not having money present, you'd need to secure the funds off site prior to the game beginning. Doyle Brunson wrote about just such an occasion in his book, and the big loser found ways to get out of paying his debts.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would be good for business if the club does not have enough cash to cash out the players at the end of the day. this is almost not an option and running a club on credit is surely -ev

Skallagrim · #7 04-13-2007, 04:30 PM

"gambling itself is legal in nyc as long as rake is not taken from the pot itself. so most clubs including mine, charge time to run around the legality of it."

By my reading of the NY staute, which I assume you were too lazy to look at yourself, it makes no difference HOW money is charged for running the game, its the charging of any money for operating the game that makes the operator guilty of "advancing gambling." The only possible loophole I see here is if you created a "private" club with membership fees for the club, and ran the games in the club with no seperate fees.

"if im being squeezed ill just move shop. but the biggest concern is that i have a cover business that generates significant income. will that other business, be in danger? can they sieze both business?"

If they CAN go for an asset siezure, they can seize any asset that is involved in the illegal enterprise no matter how small that involvement. You have to look up NY forfeiture statutes by your self.

flavio321 · #8 04-13-2007, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the link to the NY laws:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/New-York/

Looks to me like the operator of an "illegal" poker game is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor IF poker is a game "in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein." That point can be argued and won in my humble legal opinion. Probably cost more than the likely fine to fight it though.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the info. so, what's the punishment for class a misdemeanor? no prior record.

Our House · #9 04-13-2007, 05:25 PM

I know several people who have been raided for running poker clubs in the NYC area. The fine for a first offense is usually a $50 Desk Appearance Ticket.

But...if you have a tip that there may be some trouble, why not be pro-active? Close down to "renovate" for a few weeks and reopen when you feel the dust has settled. Once their scheduled raid time had passed, it should take them a while to organize another.