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#1
05-12-2006, 04:00 AM
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I announced raise
I think this floor decision was correct, but just to double check...
20/40 limit at Hollywood Park. I'm in late position, the cutoff I believe, and I see everyone fold around to me. I look at my cards and see AK, so I put out 8 yellow chips and say "raise," like I normally do, even though I don't shout it, and it's pretty loud around the table tonight. I see the button and blinds fold and then I notice the UTG player has 8 chips in front of him that the dealer scoops in -- only then do I realize I actually cold-called. I stop the dealer and told him I announced raise. He said he didn't hear me. There was action behind me after I said raise, but those guys didn't hear me either; they were just folding anyway. So the dealer asked the guy on my right, the hijack, if he heard me (I was seat 2, hijack was seat 1 next to dealer) and he said yes, I announced raise. So the dealer was going to say my raise stood. But the UTG player objected to having to put $20 more into the pot this late (which in retrospect is really weird, since he had KK). So the dealer called the floor, and decided that because seat 1 heard me say raise, I had to put 4 more chips in, and UTG had to call it or raise or fold. The floor's decision was also based on action happening behind me, but that action 1) wasn't based on my "raise"; and 2) might have been different had they known I 3-bet. Anyway, I know verbal bets are binding (and of course I was happy with the decision, since I wanted more money in the pot because at the time I liked my hand), but it's true that I only put out 8 chips and nobody but seat 1 heard me say anything. I should have paid attention to all the action and noticed UTG already raised. However, the dealer didn't say that UTG raised, nor did UTG say "raise," he just quietly put his 8 chips in and the dealer said nothing. [By the way, I sucked out by flopping an Ace and won the hand. The button then called for a new setup.] 
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#2
05-12-2006, 04:10 AM
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Re: I announced raise
1. The ruling was correct.
2. Dealer should have said raise, he simply made a mistake. A couple of times I've open raised in the CO and then been told I 3bet an UTG raise with J8s or something. 3. If everyone folded then the action behind you doesn't matter (if they weren't calling two they weren't calling 3). If someone took another action then I think it's fine to back up the action but I'm not sure.
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#3
05-12-2006, 06:53 AM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
2. Dealer should have said raise, he simply made a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Don't blame the dealer (how many times have I typed those four words?). It's not like the dealer sees everything, and relays the info to people in the next room. The opponents are just as close to the action as the dealer is. They shouldn't need to rely on the dealer to announce every single bet, raise, call, and fold. Sometimes the dealer might be distracted for a moment (getting a fill, counting the rack, asking someone for the fifth time to post their blind, etc), and not see a raise. If the OP didn't see somebody raise, it's the OP's fault, not the dealer. Sure, it's convenient to have the dealer announcing the action, but his doing so does NOT relieve any player from being responsible for the old saying, "Protect yourself at all times." Minor nit to the OP: if you're going to announce something, announce it so the players at the other end of the table can hear it. Announcing an action does no good if nobody (or almost nobody) can hear it.
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#4
05-12-2006, 07:49 AM
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Re: I announced raise
I agree, people murmur raise alllllllllllll the time, verbal declarations don't mean much if nobody can hear it. Say it loud enough so the guy farthest away from you can hear you. It is because of this I seldom announce raises until I see bets placed.
Anyways I must be retarded because I can't follow the action and I have no idea what a yellow chip is
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#5
05-12-2006, 10:20 AM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
Anyways I must be retarded because I can't follow the action and I have no idea what a yellow chip is [/ QUOTE ] Well, it's a 20/40 game, it's preflop and 8 of them consitute an open raise. So, they seem to be $5 chips. Though it is California, so who knows. The right-thinking world refers to these as "red". Regards, T
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#6
05-12-2006, 11:01 AM
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Re: I announced raise
red chips=$5 yellow chips=$20 Except in really weird sections of the world where they think thinks like shooting guns is crazy but two guys wanting to marry is just fine and they have been known to put coffee up their buts.
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#7
05-12-2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
The right-thinking world refers to these as "red". [/ QUOTE ] No reason to bring politics into this discussion. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Edit: Too late, it seems the discussion has already begun...
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#8
05-12-2006, 11:07 AM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 2. Dealer should have said raise, he simply made a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Don't blame the dealer (how many times have I typed those four words?). It's not like the dealer sees everything, and relays the info to people in the next room. The opponents are just as close to the action as the dealer is. They shouldn't need to rely on the dealer to announce every single bet, raise, call, and fold. Sometimes the dealer might be distracted for a moment (getting a fill, counting the rack, asking someone for the fifth time to post their blind, etc), and not see a raise. If the OP didn't see somebody raise, it's the OP's fault, not the dealer. Sure, it's convenient to have the dealer announcing the action, but his doing so does NOT relieve any player from being responsible for the old saying, "Protect yourself at all times." Minor nit to the OP: if you're going to announce something, announce it so the players at the other end of the table can hear it. Announcing an action does no good if nobody (or almost nobody) can hear it. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Floor call could have went either way IMHO. OP got lucky twice in one hand. Woohoo! One for the good guys. However, by calling the floor, OP slowed down the game and tap, tap, tapped on the glass. Another minor nittette to OP: Announce "raise" prior to any chip movement. Congrats on the Hand OP.
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#9
05-12-2006, 01:19 PM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
However, by calling the floor, OP slowed down the game and tap, tap, tapped on the glass. [/ QUOTE ] Whoa whoa! Easy, tiger. I didn't call the floor. When the UTG player objected to the dealer's initial decision to let my raise stand, the dealer called the floor.
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#10
05-12-2006, 02:04 PM
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Re: I announced raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] However, by calling the floor, OP slowed down the game and tap, tap, tapped on the glass. [/ QUOTE ] Whoa whoa! Easy, tiger. I didn't call the floor. When the UTG player objected to the dealer's initial decision to let my raise stand, the dealer called the floor. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I read it wrong. But you have to admit that this: [ QUOTE ] I stop the dealer and told him I announced raise [/ QUOTE ] will indirectly call the floor. You won. Good discussion.
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