Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[Victor]

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okay that's a 2 week ban, at the end of which this will probably be over or possibly not be over

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proly bad for the "cause" imo

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I'll be honest, at this point it's getting to be too much of a headache dealing with this. I spent about a week compiling the evidence when I should've probably been playing and stuff, so right now I'm on a short fuse.

If someone else wants to unban him and deal with it, I'm open to suggestions.

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i totally see where youre coming from. but its just more fuel for the doubters.

[McSeafield]

Former webside of the Gaming Commission

You can also buy the old webside of the former Gaming Commission, if you like. And then do the job from the scratch where they have obv missed the connection somewhere.

[GaryTheGoat]

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okay that's a 2 week ban, at the end of which this will probably be over or possibly not be over

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proly bad for the "cause" imo

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I'll be honest, at this point it's getting to be too much of a headache dealing with this. I spent about a week compiling the evidence when I should've probably been playing and stuff, so right now I'm on a short fuse.

If someone else wants to unban him and deal with it, I'm open to suggestions.

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i totally see where youre coming from. but its just more fuel for the doubters.

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Agree with all...maybe we should avoid even the appearance of intransparency, the very thing that we're fighting within the poker sites.

gg

[pokerstudAA]

It is sad all the energy wasted in this thread on a few doubters who clearly have little understanding of the situation. Some of the finest poker minds on 2+2 have looked at all the evidence that has been compiled and agree - there was definately some sort of cheating going on here. Numerous players I respect have come to agreeance on this issue. I have personally read all the threads and looked at the evidence that has been present and I agree. That is really all I need to know.

As far as the term "super-user" account - I think that is misleading to what has really gone on. I doubt that Absolute purposely created accounts with access to all the other players hole cards. This is much more likely a hack or some backdoor into Absolutes security - either from the inside or from some hacker.

The real question now is what next? How do we get Absolute to take this matter seriously and tell us exactly what happend?

[ibluffoldladies]

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It is sad all the energy wasted in this thread on a few doubters who clearly have little understanding of the situation. Some of the finest poker minds on 2+2 have looked at all the evidence that has been compiled and agree - there was definately some sort of cheating going on here. Numerous players I respect have come to agreeance on this issue. I have personally read all the threads and looked at the evidence that has been present and I agree. That is really all I need to know.

As far as the term "super-user" account - I think that is misleading to what has really gone on. I doubt that Absolute purposely created accounts with access to all the other players hole cards. This is much more likely a hack or some backdoor into Absolutes security - either from the inside or from some hacker.

The real question now is what next? How do we get Absolute to take this matter seriously and tell us exactly what happend?

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It would help if you explained to everybody why you think "super" accounts are ruled out here. I'm just curious. My logic hasn't brought me to this conclusion, so I'm looking to borrow some that has. Explain please!

[Josem]

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You can also buy the old webside of the former Gaming Commission, if you like.

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Sadly, not... it is registered through to November '07 to someone else.


Does anyone have a datamine of a large chunk of high stakes play at Absolute? I'd like to make a chart comparing VPIP (and a few other select stats) vs BB/100, and show just how far out the cheaters are.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

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Does anyone have a datamine of a large chunk of high stakes play at Absolute? I'd like to make a chart comparing VPIP (and a few other select stats) vs BB/100, and show just how far out the cheaters are.

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sounds like a sexy idea. Everyone likes grapphs

[A2steaksauce]

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I posted this already but it looks like it didn't get any attention so I'm gonna post it again - "Absolute Poker and the Absolute Poker website are solely owned and operated by Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, Route 138, Kahnawake, Quebec J0L 1B0. Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG is owned by a Mohawk of Kahnawake and is operated from the sovereign nation of the Mohawks of Kahnawake, located near Montreal Quebec."

They are owned by a Canadian based company and serious fraud has occurred that is backed up by overwhelming statistical evidence. It should be reported to https://www.recol.ca/intro.aspx?lang=en. If this went to court I would imagine an impartial mathematician would be called on to very the data, aswell as a few impartial pro poker players, possiblity celebrity pro's who don't even play on line to ensure their impartiality, who can testify on the corroborating evidence in the HHs. They could easily find them guilty well beyond a reasonable doubt. <font color="red"> </font>

Whatever about trying to get the word out to the wider media, I think a court case would serve that purpose better than any other means, aswell as getting some justice.

I'm gonna highlight this cos I think it hasn't been emphasised enough yet - please tell me if I've overlooked something and this idea is not feasible (such as Canada not having juristiction on this reservation, I'd imagine it does but I don't know)
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FRAUD IS A SERIOUS CRIME THAT CAN RESULT IN JAIL AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF TENS/HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. WHY HAS NO-ONE MENTIONED BRINGING CHARGES AGAINST THE CHEATERS AND POSSIBLY AGAINST ABSOLUTE FOR COVERING IT UP AND FACILITATING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. </font>

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I and probably several of the others who lost money wouuld be willing to explore this option as long as it is legally and economically feasible.

[darkcore]

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What evidence would a court of law require if this was to progress any further? Again I doubt wether the HH's evidence would be conclusive, at best it will be corroborative.

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The testimony of hundreds of experts would make this case a slam dunk in a court of law, statistical evidence or not.

My suggestion: break up this discussion.

* Lock this thread make a new cliff's notes thread in BBV

* Start a new thread in Probability analyzing the numbers/ making the stats evidence concrete.

* Start a thread in the Zoo warning internet gamblers of this issue

* Let Mods know about that thread if they want to link it in a sticky in their forum

* Take Transference up on his offer to start a website to deal with the response to this issue

* This site should start as a meeting ground for everyone to put together in a coherent bundle all the examples and evidence of cheating in several ways for audiences of varying sophistication

* As the "case" becomes concrete, the site should turn into a PR machine for getting the word out

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i agree completly.

what i'd like to add to the next cliffnotes is a summary of all the play for the 5 accounts. like a timeline where people you can easily compare the three parts (beforetheupdate/cheating/breakingofthestory). it surly will make it harder for the "nay"-sayers to cherrypick from the samplesize gathered so far.

and while i only skimmed through most of the last 2 pages i beginning to think since AP is known for spamming some ip-checks are in order.

[2461Badugi]

Unfortunately, in and among all of the crap that krumeluren has posted, he has an actual point: all of the data is really only available to a small number of people. Personally I trust Adanthar more than any other poster on 2+2 other than a couple I know personally, and I'm willing to take his word for the evidence, but I can see why someone else wouldn't. And we are seeing only the most incriminating hands here.

We need to make as many hand histories as possible available to everyone. I can see why some high-stakes players aren't that into the idea, but I suspect being cheated out of this much money is worth having a couple hundred of your hands made public. (Nobody's played more than 500 or so with them, right?)

If I'm correct that overall we're looking at something like 2000 hands, I'd be willing to go through them and replace player names with seat names, and give them webspace. I need something to keep my mind off of other crap this weekend anyway.