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#1
02-14-2006, 10:19 AM
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Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
Full Table. Reads: MP+1 is 36/1. Previous sessions he has cold-called everything, 3-bet bluff into any board with absolutely nothing. Total lag-tard. This session seems to be playing more straight.
Hero: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in HJ PREFLOP: 1 fold, UTG+1 limps, 1 fold, MP raise, MP+1 calls, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, everyone calls. <normally I would have 3-bet but on this table there was alot of cc'ing with AX that I wanted to see the flop before I put more $ in.> FLOP (13 sb): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB bet, MP call, MP+1 calls, Hero calls. <I may have an edge here but my raise wouldn't get anyone to fold and since my equity could change drastically with the Turn, I just called.> TURN (8 BB): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB check, MP bet, MP+1 raises. Hero??? 
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#2
02-14-2006, 01:00 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
Jeesh....
That's a terrible reason to call. 3 bet that PF, if an A or K comes so be it. On the turn, you're stuck in this position because of your passive play up till now. Well the question is MP+1 being a lagtard or does he have a hand? If he's making a move, it gives us the opportunity to 3 bet, which might get a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]less hand that currently beats us to fold.
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#3
02-14-2006, 03:30 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
the concept of waiting for a safe board with QQ doesnt really apply that well in limit holdem b/c your whole stack and tournament isnt at risk. You have an equity advantage preflop, use it.
Your entire play really reminds me of something someone might do in a no limit tournament, but even then, seems pretty weak. You want your villains going to the river trying to draw out on you with bad odds to do so. So what if you wont knock anyone out of the pot this size, you want them chasing badly. Jam it.
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#4
02-14-2006, 03:43 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
[ QUOTE ]
<normally I would have 3-bet but on this table there was alot of cc'ing with AX that I wanted to see the flop before I put more $ in.> [/ QUOTE ] yikes...thats exaclty why you do raise in this situation...they wont call a flop bet when their Ax doesnt hit, but they will glady throw in extra money pre flop. on the turn, a read would be nice, but given we dont have one, id call and re-evaluate the river. i may three-bet if i think it can get me a free showdown. -mike
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#6
02-14-2006, 07:09 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
[ QUOTE ]
the concept of waiting for a safe board with QQ doesnt really apply that well in limit holdem b/c your whole stack and tournament isnt at risk. You have an equity advantage preflop, use it. Your entire play really reminds me of something someone might do in a no limit tournament, but even then, seems pretty weak. You want your villains going to the river trying to draw out on you with bad odds to do so. So what if you wont knock anyone out of the pot this size, you want them chasing badly. Jam it. [/ QUOTE ] enuff said,,,,geeez you played this poorly IMO
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#7
02-14-2006, 07:27 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
[ QUOTE ]
Full Table. Reads: MP+1 is 36/1. Previous sessions he has cold-called everything, 3-bet bluff into any board with absolutely nothing. Total lag-tard. This session seems to be playing more straight. Hero: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in HJ PREFLOP: 1 fold, UTG+1 limps, 1 fold, MP raise, MP+1 calls, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, everyone calls. <normally I would have 3-bet but on this table there was alot of cc'ing with AX that I wanted to see the flop before I put more $ in.> FLOP (13 sb): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB bet, MP call, MP+1 calls, Hero calls. <I may have an edge here but my raise wouldn't get anyone to fold and since my equity could change drastically with the Turn, I just called.> TURN (8 BB): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB check, MP bet, MP+1 raises. Hero??? [/ QUOTE ] Points well taken on the preflop. I may have been playing a little scared here as my good hands kept getting outdrawn by A3o after I put in multiple bets PF. Still have some questions regarding the flop. There are alot of cards I dont want to see on the Turn (any A, any K, any club (although I have a redraw), maybe even 7 or 8.) Given that, you still don't think its a good idea to see the Turn before I jam it? Does your opinion change if I have 2 red Qs? How about 2 red Ts? Given my play, to you call two on the Turn hoping for a club or not? Thanks for your help.
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#8
02-14-2006, 09:54 PM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
[ QUOTE ]
the concept of waiting for a safe board with QQ doesnt really apply that well in limit holdem b/c your whole stack and tournament isnt at risk. [/ QUOTE ] it should be said that waiting for a safe flop in nl tournies to reduce your risk, and waiting until the turn to raise a vulnerable limit hand are two entirely different concepts.
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#9
02-15-2006, 01:02 AM
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Re: Overpair on Draw-Heavy Board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] the concept of waiting for a safe board with QQ doesnt really apply that well in limit holdem b/c your whole stack and tournament isnt at risk. [/ QUOTE ] it should be said that waiting for a safe flop in nl tournies to reduce your risk, and waiting until the turn to raise a vulnerable limit hand are two entirely different concepts. [/ QUOTE ] This is true, but after the OP cold calls the third best starting hand, calls the flop, and has a dilema when facing 2 bets on the turn, I get the feeling that he was looking at the whole hand as half-empty and might be considering a call or a fold rather than a raise.
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