Quick Dumb Question

[Justin A]

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Thanks madnak,

I think I understand what you're saying. But I'm wondering if there could be things beyond all that which you mentioned. Pesumably, the reason we can measure all those things is because we have some clue to their existence through one of our 5 senses. I'm talking about a 6th, or 7th sense that simply escapes us, because not only can't we perceive it through one of our senses, we can't know it even exists.

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Who sensed that electric fields existed?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

Not directly though, which isn't what he meant. Sharks can sense them directly though. Bat's use echolocation which obviously must be experienced much differently than the way we experience hearing. There are lots of possible and actual senses.

There could be physical phenomenon which is causally isolated from our senses in such a way that we could never discover them through science. Some other creature might be able to sense that phenomenon, but that creature might be undetectable to us as well.



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Ok I see now. Speculating about physical phenomena that we could never discover them through science sounds way too much like speculating about God. I just don't see the point.

[Bork]

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Ok I see now. Speculating about physical phenomena that we could never discover them through science sounds way too much like speculating about God. I just don't see the point.


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Well Kant almost agrees with this. He thinks the point of such speculation is to establish the limits of what we can know, and then not waste time venturing beyond those limits. He was a Theist like nearly everybody else of his time though. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Also saying something could be true doesn't technically count as speculation. Unless you want to count pretty much every claim as speculation.
Saying it is likely to be true would be speculation.
Claiming the Seahawks could win the Superbowl this year isn't speculation, but claiming they probably will is.

[tame_deuces]

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We experience the world through our 5 senses (sight, smell, hearing, taste, and feel). I'm wondering if there could be more senses that we just don't know about because our bodies are not capable of experiencing them.

If we didn't have smell for instance, would we know about odor? If we didn't have taste, would we know that it's possible to savor food? Without sight, I'm sure we WOULD know that things exist beyond beyond our sight, but would we know that they are visible?

In other words, who's to say that our 5 senses are all there is to experience?

Btw- I'm not talking about things beyond our 5 sensory limitations such as, sonor, infra-red, etc. At least I don't *think* I'm talking about that. Or am I? These are still things which exist in one of these 5 mediums. I'm talking about completely different mediums. Not just ultra-violet rays beyond our visual perception, but something that would require a completely different sense altogether.

Like I said, a dumb question from a dumb layman who thinks about dumb things.

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What's interesting is probably that we can probably not too far into the distant future make new senses if we wish to do so, or at the very least change the ones we have dramatically both in what they perceive and how we interpret it. We already do this indirectly...

Interesting times! Maybe we'll finally get to throw away alot of those old strict rationalists. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[luckyme]

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What's interesting is probably that we can probably not too far into the distant future make new senses if we wish to do so, or at the very least change the ones we have dramatically both in what they perceive and how we interpret it. We already do this indirectly...

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perhaps we could already by translating electric-field reception into a touch grid on our backs ( not unlike the do with some blind people). It's rather cheating but a super sensitive one could maybe make the darkglasses useless at the final table.

luckyme

[tame_deuces]

Now that's neat. I believe they are starting to make good progress with certain sensory impairments too. And they're making some supersnail (well, they have a very simple neural structure, but its still cool) with a nervous system improved with computer chips or something - if I remember correctly.

[madnak]

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I think I understand what you're saying. But I'm wondering if there could be things beyond all that which you mentioned. Pesumably, the reason we can measure all those things is because we have some clue to their existence through one of our 5 senses. I'm talking about a 6th, or 7th sense that simply escapes us, because not only can't we perceive it through one of our senses, we can't know it even exists.

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A sense of something that doesn't affect the physical world at all? What you're suggesting is a completely separate world then, a different "plane" of reality.

Assuming that humans exist completely within the physical world, then we could never have any sort of connection with this "otherworld," and due to the total segregation it would, for all intents and purposes, not exist for us. If you're taking a dualistic perspective, that the two worlds can "connect" in the human mind, then it might be possible for us to sense the otherworld. Things like thoughts and emotions might also be transmitted in the otherworld in such a case (telepathy). Finally, if you allow for regular crossings between this world and the otherworld, you would have phenomena that we would call paranormal.

So the real question in that sense is simple - does the supernatural exist? I believe there is no convincing evidence that it does, so I'm comfortable saying that physical effects are the only things that we can sense.

All physical effects of all types interact together, so there's no room for a "something else" that's physical. It would distort the whole system, and we'd be able to see it or infer its properties with physics (based on data gleaned from our normal senses). Then again, there may be physical effects that are so subtle we haven't been able to measure them yet - these effects would have to be "amplified" somehow before they could be sensed, but I suppose it's possible...