Characteristics of Tagfish - Page 2

Oink · #11 09-26-2007, 07:05 AM

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This means stuff like opening 76s OTB vs 2 loose passive blinds

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Why wouldnt you?

With loose passive bad players you want to loosen up OTB, not tighten up. This is a misperception you see a lot for some reason

shane88888 · #12 09-26-2007, 07:12 AM

Isn't the thinking (which I'm borrowing from HEPFAP), that you should just call more on the button against loose, bad players.

You have little if any edge to push w/ 76s, and you hardly fear a raise from the blinds. There is little value in trying to steal, since they never fold.

Now, if they are pushed around very easily postflop, then I understand. But if they're going to the river with any pair, then I don't see much value in raising.

Oink · #13 09-26-2007, 07:16 AM

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There is little value in trying to steal, since they never fold.

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This is not true. Even loose passive fish will fold their SB to a steal quite a lot. A lot of 50/5 guys will fold their SB around 30-40%

I still think its a raise because you want folding equity - even if its slim and because you want SB out if possible.

But the points you make are valid.

shane88888 · #14 09-26-2007, 07:23 AM

Here I'm assuming both blinds are bad.

I guess I prefer the implied odds of having two weak players in a hand, and I hold a strong multiway holding.

Bets are always best when my equity's 100%.

HoneyBadger · #15 09-26-2007, 07:26 AM

If you don't raise you'll have a hard time representing that flopped ace on your c-bet... that combined with the times they do fold (don't be mistaken, if they fold you make a huge profit. You'll win 0.75 BB on a 76s hand, that's probably more than average, close to hands like KQ) makes raising a good play.

Burnsabre · #16 09-26-2007, 08:21 AM

Hrmm... It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not so why bloat the pot when you have to hit your hand?

Oink · #17 09-26-2007, 08:35 AM

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It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not

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No its not

First. You want to play your hand because you want to play hands in position vs morons. So limp or raise is better than fold, ok?

Second. Limp or fold?

- If you raise you will get it HU with nonzero probability and even win the pot outright sometimes.

- If you get the pot HU you will win UI on the flop or turn fairly often. If you dont win UI you can take free cards because you have initiative (yes they will sometimes donk)

- If you dont get the pot HU you are still in a good spot because of position. You can check the flop or the turn. You dont have to c-bet every flop. No reason to bet a QJ9 twotone flop for example.

Not raising 76s OTB vs two fish in the blinds is a terrible mistake IMO. I think that open limping is +EV, just not as much as open raising. And its not even close.

The best spot in LHE is you in a pot vs moron(s). You need to play a lot of hands preflop if you can get in that spot.

Rev. Good Will · #18 09-26-2007, 08:50 AM

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It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not

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No its not

First. You want to play your hand because you want to play hands in position vs morons. So limp or raise is better than fold, ok?

Second. Limp or fold?

- If you raise you will get it HU with nonzero probability and even win the pot outright sometimes.

- If you get the pot HU you will win UI on the flop or turn fairly often. If you dont win UI you can take free cards because you have initiative (yes they will sometimes donk)

- If you dont get the pot HU you are still in a good spot because of position. You can check the flop or the turn. You dont have to c-bet every flop. No reason to bet a QJ9 twotone flop for example.

Not raising 76s OTB vs two fish in the blinds is a terrible mistake IMO. I think that open limping is +EV, just not as much as open raising. And its not even close.

The best spot in LHE is you in a pot vs moron(s). You need to play a lot of hands preflop if you can get in that spot.

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Is this for the stakes you play? or for chumps like me too playing 1/2 and 2/4? I've been doing stuff like this, and I am unsure if it is +EV enough to beat the rake playing marginal hands like that.

Oink · #19 09-26-2007, 08:53 AM

I think the rake needs to be rather high for folding preflop to be ok.

It cant really be said too much how important it is for you to attack the blinds when they are bad.

I will much rather play 76s OTB vs two fish than vs two strong LAG/TAGs even tho the latter will fold their blinds more often.

YOU WANT TO PLAY POTS vs BAD PLAYERS