10/20 pound: KK line check

[aba20]

I hate multi hand posts and this is my first but these hand really have a similar theme. All players are smart in this hand. UTG has a huge opening range and the cutoff has a decent reraising range (TT+, AQs+). I am sure shoving is +EV, but wondering what some alternative lines are.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1940
UTG+1: $2321
CO: $1671.50
Button: $3444
SB: $1937
Hero: $3007

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $80</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $280</font>, 2 folds,

Hero ????



UTG+1 is very agro and will always raise to isolate limpers. The small blind has the largest reraising range of any winning player I know (he is a 2+2er with great results), although it is smaller when he is out of position. His re-raising range is any pair, any big ace, and suited connectors. Which line will maximize my EV? Again I know shoving is +EV but I am wondering if better lines exsist. Also I limp very rarely with big pairs and with the agression of this game I should have raised first in.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $2787
UTG+1: $1793
CO: $2454
Button: $1647
SB: $1980
BB: $1986.50

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $80</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $280</font>, BB folds,

Hero???

Edit: Removed my action but I shoved in both and was uncalled.

Aba how are you sure that shoving is +EV if you are only going to get called by AA?

Do you think that either UTG and CO don't have AA often enough for the dead money you pick up every time to make up for the times you get 3k in as a 4:1 dog?

Same with hand 2 but I think that one is actually worse since you limped before hand.

Limp-re-raising I think is the stupidest thing ever to do with AA/KK unless you regularly are LRRing other hands (wider range).

I think in both situations you are worried about giving your opponents implied odds to draw vs your KK. Maybe min4bet or smallish 4bet it and you will diminish their implied odds to allow them to draw profitably without having to risk your whole stack when you are only going to get called by worse.

Cold calling and getting it in on a non A flop aint a bad idea either.

[aba20]

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Aba how are you sure that shoving is +EV if you are only going to get called by AA?

Do you think that either UTG and CO don't have AA often enough for the dead money you pick up every time to make up for the times you get 3k in as a 4:1 dog?

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I don't think they have aces often enough and I think I get called often enough by QQ and AKs to make it a profitable shove. Also effective stacks are just under 2K in both hands.

[aba20]

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Same with hand 2 but I think that one is actually worse since you limped before hand.

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I agree limping was not the best play with these table conditions.

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Limp-re-raising I think is the stupidest thing ever to do with AA/KK unless you regularly are LRRing other hands (wider range).

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I disagree and I do have a decent LRR range although it isn't massive.

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Maybe min4bet or smallish 4bet it and you will diminish their implied odds to allow them to draw profitably without having to risk your whole stack when you are only going to get called by worse.


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My opponets aren't idiots a shove to them can look less scary then a min reraise. Also if I min reraise and put in ~1/3 of my stack I sure as hell am not folding KK at that point.

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Cold calling and getting it in on a non A flop aint a bad idea either.

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Again these are smart opponents. When they see me limp call a raise and reraise or call two bets cold they are going to put me on big hands. I will be playing my hand face up in those situations.

[fslexcduck]

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Again these are smart opponents. When they see me limp call a raise and reraise or call two bets cold they are going to put me on big hands. I will be playing my hand face up in those situations.

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you're giving your opponents too much credit. and your cards could not be more face up than by shoving... well actually, that isn't true. you're representing AA.

with AA there is way more merit in the shove in my opinion. i'd call and play poker, you'd be surprised how AQ on a Q high flop talks himself into you having JJ when you s mooth call.

[etherealpat]

i like coldcall on 1st hand. i like it more on 2nd hand. but only if you are willing to play poker. coldcalling is bad if you want a template.

[MrFeelNothin]

ABA, I folded QQ there and I think I am looser than almost every regular in that game.

I guess that makes it a silly move with KK/AA, which means you should only do it with crap, which means I should call with QQ, which means you should make the move with KK/AA. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[MrFeelNothin]

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Again these are smart opponents.

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Well, sometimes. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]