about 3 to 1 on river call

cheer · #1 10-13-2007, 09:21 PM

profit?

50 flop bet is to look weak and to have JJ QQ come along. also he might come over the top with air/JQ and such. good?

on river I figured he wasn't calling worse if I pushed but he might bluff JQ JJ..AQ..idk... getting about 3/1 on the call is this good?

vil: 21/16/3 over 2k

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($300)
MP ($400)
CO ($723)
Button ($400)
SB ($403.30)
Hero ($439.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
CO raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero raises to $52, CO calls $34.

Flop: ($102) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $50, CO calls $50.

Turn: ($202) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $120, CO calls $120.

River: ($442) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $505 (All-In), Hero calls $221.70 (All-In)?????????.

Final Pot: $885.40

Unknown Soldier · #2 10-13-2007, 09:31 PM

shove > c/c

jfish · #3 10-13-2007, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shove > c/c

[/ QUOTE ]

somewhat of an understatement.

cheer · #4 10-13-2007, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shove > c/c

[/ QUOTE ]
why? do you think he plays KJ or JJ or AA like this and would call? what do I get value out of by pushing?

tozzy · #5 10-13-2007, 09:50 PM

flop bet is so incredibly bad, no matter how its supposed to look like.

Unknown Soldier · #6 10-13-2007, 09:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shove > c/c

[/ QUOTE ]
why? do you think he plays KJ or JJ or AA like this and would call? what do I get value out of by pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

what value do you get from c/c? Don't say a bluff please, he has air like 1% of the time here.

cheer · #7 10-13-2007, 09:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shove > c/c

[/ QUOTE ]
why? do you think he plays KJ or JJ or AA like this and would call? what do I get value out of by pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

what value do you get from c/c? Don't say a bluff please, he has air like 1% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

so then how is it a shove?

d2themfi · #8 10-13-2007, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flop bet is so incredibly bad, no matter how its supposed to look like.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it is pretty bad. This board is not one that you want to invite a flat call on the flop, plus I would guess ur normal cbet here would def be larger more like 70-75% of the pot ususally right? If so then i would just make the same bet. Making a diff bet size like this is kinda fishy imo.

As for the river I agree shoving is def way better than c/c.

Unknown Soldier · #9 10-13-2007, 10:00 PM

i didnt day that, i said shove > c/c. I think that's pretty clear. fwiw i think this is a c/f. c/f > shove > c/c. imo.

EDIT: from the info you gave us. with some history shoving could be fine.

cheer · #10 10-13-2007, 10:09 PM

c/f then? everyone is saying that shoving is optimal but no one is giving any reasoning. i bet 3/4 pot to pot 90% of time here it is just that he was calling 3 bet in pos a couple times this night and though he might make a move. but after that can someone please explain the shove on river?

thinking about it it seems more like a c/f then a shove...?