Bet your rags, check your "premiums"

[fretelöo]

Same villain (44/10/0.6) in both hands...


PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (1 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (1 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 1 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has 4d 3d (one pair, aces).
Hero has 7s 6h (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 1 BB. </font>


Shortly after:


PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: 1.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins 1.50 BB. </font>

Makes sense? Completely standard? Waste of time/value because no one pays attention anyway?

[bennyhana]

[ QUOTE ]
44/10/0.6

[/ QUOTE ]

I would want a little more than that to do this on a regular basis. Him checking down a weak hand doesn't tell me if he will call down a weak hand.

But yeah, I like it. I think they refer to it as bluffing.

[OziBattler]

well, for starters I'd rather bet the flop on hand 1 than hand 2

[Ampelmann]

Against these guy I don't bet air very often, since they often call with better air. But here I'd bet flop one. I'm not so inclined to bet flop 2.

[fretelöo]

Actually that's the exact point. I agree that hand one is probably not the most clear cut of examples, but the general idea was that I have some slight chance of being good anyway in hand one. If I check that down and win, I show villain that I don't bet w/out a hand.

If I then bet the 3-high, he has more reason to believe I actually have a hand. Also, I can't win this hand ever without betting.

So, in short, I might forego some slight value by checking down 7-high for added folding equity on complete rags hands.

[Fantam]

I am not sure what you mean by "check your premiums" if you are referring to the 1st hand.

The flop looked as though it would probably have missed a random handom. So, I think a flop bet would have looked a bit suspicious, and may have been called if SB had anything reasonable.

After being checked to twice though, I think a turn bet would probably have had a decent chance of folding SB.

In the second hand, the flop is a bit more co-ordinated and looks as though it could have connected with a random hand. So, I am not surprised that your flop bet folded SB after you were checked to that time.

[OziBattler]

fret, hand two is much more likely to give villian a hand that will at least peel the flop.

I also doubt this guy is a thinking about what you have so likely wont remember what you did with your 67o

basically if Im betting the flop on these hands Im shutting down if called...I expect to be called on hand 2 alot more than hand 1.

[bennyhana]

why do you guys like bluffing at flop one more than flop 2?

[OziBattler]

ben, because villian probably is at like level 1 and will
a. be scared of flop 1 cos it has aces [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
b. more likely to have something like a 7, 8, 9 or 10 when he limps the SB (aka hand 2). I also expect this sort of guy to peel with a gutshot if he has Jx

[bennyhana]

[ QUOTE ]
ben, because villian probably is at like level 1 and will
a. be scared of flop 1 cos it has aces [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
b. more likely to have something like a 7, 8, 9 or 10 when he limps the SB (aka hand 2). I also expect this sort of guy to peel with a gutshot if he has Jx

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm.

I guess I see more people peeling flops with 2 aces more than flops with one. Especially with the 2 suits. I guess I'm seeing more cards that will justify a call from these guys in hand one as opposed to hand 2.

I guess it all boils down to whether he is a calling station or a checking station. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

With the information we have atm, I try the bluff in hand 2 and see how it works. Winning small pots is ok too, as long as you don't lose the big ones. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]