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#1
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
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I dont think the speed of decision is the essential distinguishing factor between logic and intuition, although I agree it is often the case. I think a logical approach involves only accepting what can be deduced from prior, accepted axioms or theorems. I understood Splendour to be labelling intuition "everything else". I consider it at least possible to mull things over and still form an intuitive judgement. [/ QUOTE ] I guess that's true. I would say in those cases intuition is often less useful if you go against the logical conclusion. Sometimes logic doesn't give you a good answer and you have to rely on your intuition though. |
#2
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
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[ QUOTE ] I dont think the speed of decision is the essential distinguishing factor between logic and intuition, although I agree it is often the case. I think a logical approach involves only accepting what can be deduced from prior, accepted axioms or theorems. I understood Splendour to be labelling intuition "everything else". I consider it at least possible to mull things over and still form an intuitive judgement. [/ QUOTE ] I guess that's true. I would say in those cases intuition is often less useful if you go against the logical conclusion. Sometimes logic doesn't give you a good answer and you have to rely on your intuition though. [/ QUOTE ] That touches on the aspect I've been pointing to. let's use VarlosZ's situation - He knows intuitively that him mother loves him ( darn, I wish he'd have thrown in something about apple pie). We discover that she's been slowly poisoning him to collect insurance and arranging a sell him to the gypsies and keeping the pie. which source of knowledge is considered 'right' or 'true'. His personal intuition or our objective analysis? Don't you get tired of seeing the mother on TV saying, "My Jimmie would never do that" often just as they run the juice through him. or the neighbors saying of the child molester, "he was such a great guy." or seeing your friends or relatives getting conned by salesmen, politicians, gold-diggers, gigolo's, and the normal assortment of misreading peoples intent and motive. Sure, our intuition in some situations is better than a coin flip, in others it's our worst enemy and in all the final judgment on whether the intuition was working for us or not will be by a logical analysis and we don't even have to know the intuitive mechanism to do the evaluation. Related to this is a standard approach I use -- If I want to know the reasons BeckyLou did something I don't ask BeckyLou, I ask her friends and relatives, and it's not that I consider BeckyLou a liar I merely consider her human. Our intuitions of others maybe shaky but our intuitions about ourselves are often worse. aside - like most people I have overconfidence in my reading ability, but I do have a decent enough public track record to be called into negotiations to act as the people observer, to identify the hard and soft spots in the opposition position for example. My approach to my own reads is - Trust but Verify. luckyme |
#3
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
quote: "That touches on the aspect I've been pointing to. let's use VarlosZ's situation - He knows intuitively that him mother loves him ( darn, I wish he'd have thrown in something about apple pie). We discover that she's been slowly poisoning him to collect insurance and arranging a sell him to the gypsies and keeping the pie."
Ha gotcha. Both can be right. His mother could be insane and love him and think she has to kill him for some insane purpose and at the same time need the money for some other insane purpose. But I did find your "verify your reads" as very insightful advice with some practical value. Instead of just reading I may need to incorporate some verification techniques into my game. Thanks for the tip! |
#4
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
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quote: "That touches on the aspect I've been pointing to. let's use VarlosZ's situation - He knows intuitively that him mother loves him ( darn, I wish he'd have thrown in something about apple pie). We discover that she's been slowly poisoning him to collect insurance and arranging a sell him to the gypsies and keeping the pie." Ha gotcha. Both can be right. His mother could be insane and love him and think she has to kill him for some insane purpose and at the same time need the money for some other insane purpose. [/ QUOTE ] And his intuition about his mothers state is so great that he caught the 'she loves me' part and missed the "then again, she is INSANE". These are 'reads' he should trust? That's skipping over the question of whether we are talking about the same mental state when we are referring to 'love' - a) a normal persons love for me. b) an insane persons love for me. Equivocation seems to be a general problem for you. luckyme |
#5
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
quote: And his intuition about his mothers state is so great that he caught the 'she loves me' part and missed the "then again, she is INSANE".
These are 'reads' he should trust? Why can't there be concurrent situations and he's only getting the read from one from conditioning but due to timing and other things, maybe he's in denial, he doesn't get that she just lost it. It doesn't make the first read wrong it just complicates things. Look at that lady in Texas that killed 4 or 5 kids. The schizophrenic nurse. Her husband knew she was sick and the family probably thought she loved them they just didn't know her illness had stepped up the ladder into the psychotic stage. |
#6
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
What do you mean by intuition exactly? If you mean quick, fast thinking then we need that. We're biological computers in more need of quick'n'dirty than we are in need of continous quality. 'Snake! AH! BAD!' , 'Sugar....mmmm...'. Being somewhat right most of the time is more than good enough for much of life purposes. But when you dwelve into the abstract knowledge models it won't cut it. |
#7
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
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What do you mean by intuition exactly? If you mean quick, fast thinking then we need that. We're biological computers in more need of quick'n'dirty than we are in need of continous quality. 'Snake! AH! BAD!' , 'Sugar....mmmm...'. Being somewhat right most of the time is more than good enough for much of life purposes. But when you dwelve into the abstract knowledge models it won't cut it. [/ QUOTE ] Quite honestly I'm not sure what I mean by intuition anymore. There may be multiple levels to it. I found the myers-brigg personality thing interesting. I think I'm in the intuitive category and a lot of the folks on here are sensory so that's why everyone likes to joust with me. En garde! Hopefully you don't kill me or make me fly the coop before learning something. A lot of mathematical, scientific people would probably be likely to be more prone to sensing than intuitive so what I say would come across as illogical to them especially in this type of linear internet format. As I'm doing this thread I keep having this thought of a friend who visited London/Wales and toured Windsor Castle. They told me that the English thought of themselves as more intelligent than the Welsh, but they considered the Welsh to be more intuitive. There could definitely be genetic links to aspects of personality and personality and intelligence are bound to related in ways that we are just beginning to understand. |
#8
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
[ QUOTE ]
quote: And his intuition about his mothers state is so great that he caught the 'she loves me' part and missed the "then again, she is INSANE". These are 'reads' he should trust? Why can't there be concurrent situations and he's only getting the read from one from conditioning but due to timing and other things, maybe he's in denial, he doesn't get that she just lost it. It doesn't make the first read wrong it just complicates things. Look at that lady in Texas that killed 4 or 5 kids. The schizophrenic nurse. Her husband knew she was sick and the family probably thought she loved them they just didn't know her illness had stepped up the ladder into the psychotic stage. [/ QUOTE ] Again - do you think you are referring to the same mental experience/state when you compare an insane homocidal persons love of you to an normal persons love of you. you would actually claim " yep, they both love me. oh, and one wants to kill me in a barbaric way" ? would that make the use of the term 'love' not as comforting as VarlosZ seemed to want it to be for us? "She loves you." " Yikes, hellllp, I'm outta here" luckyme |
#9
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
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"She loves you." "Yikes, hellllp, I'm outta here" [/ QUOTE ] When is this not the correct play? |
#10
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Re: Society, Intuition and Logic
[ QUOTE ]
That touches on the aspect I've been pointing to. let's use VarlosZ's situation - He knows intuitively that him mother loves him ( darn, I wish he'd have thrown in something about apple pie). We discover that she's been slowly poisoning him to collect insurance and arranging a sell him to the gypsies and keeping the pie. which source of knowledge is considered 'right' or 'true'. His personal intuition or our objective analysis? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Again - do you think you are referring to the same mental experience/state when you compare an insane homocidal persons love of you to an normal persons love of you. you would actually claim " yep, they both love me. oh, and one wants to kill me in a barbaric way" ? would that make the use of the term 'love' not as comforting as VarlosZ seemed to want it to be for us? [/ QUOTE ] I must have done a poor job of explaining what I mean, because you still don't know what I've been saying. Part of that is your fault, though: I've mentioned mothers and love, and you've read way too much into those examples. When have I implied anything about love being comforting? Where does that intersect with anything I've said? And your apple pie reference is cute, but 100% irrelevant. If it makes it easier, forget motherhood and love. Pick any interpersonal relationship, and any potentially related emotion. What does it feel like to be angry with a friend? Can logic do a better job of capturing that information than "intuition"? |
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