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#22
07-26-2007, 08:39 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With the strength of your line and villain's passiveness I do not really see him shoving anything that you beat. These passive players do not shove AJ/A9 on this river. [/ QUOTE ] not sure why it's funny. how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? Villain's river AF is 6. For a point of reference, mine is just under 2. [/ QUOTE ] It takes a high volume of hands for the river AF to actually mean something. Judging by his PF stats, he is a passive calling station. Which means he is calling with worse trips and shoving his boats. [/ QUOTE ] Wait, which is it...his stats don't mean anything or they mean he's passive? You can't have both. [/ QUOTE ] VPIP/PFR are much more reliable after 45 hands than river AF. Come on bilbo, you know what I am saying...lets not nit pick. [/ QUOTE ] actually, i've always considered the opposite to be true edit: i think that your vpip/pfr numbers are more subject to the cards you are dealt, than the level of aggression you choose to show once you play a hand. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at this. It takes a ton of hands for "river AF" stat to actually mean something. [/ QUOTE ] how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? [/ QUOTE ] Refer to edit. 
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#23
07-26-2007, 08:43 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With the strength of your line and villain's passiveness I do not really see him shoving anything that you beat. These passive players do not shove AJ/A9 on this river. [/ QUOTE ] not sure why it's funny. how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? Villain's river AF is 6. For a point of reference, mine is just under 2. [/ QUOTE ] It takes a high volume of hands for the river AF to actually mean something. Judging by his PF stats, he is a passive calling station. Which means he is calling with worse trips and shoving his boats. [/ QUOTE ] Wait, which is it...his stats don't mean anything or they mean he's passive? You can't have both. [/ QUOTE ] VPIP/PFR are much more reliable after 45 hands than river AF. Come on bilbo, you know what I am saying...lets not nit pick. [/ QUOTE ] actually, i've always considered the opposite to be true edit: i think that your vpip/pfr numbers are more subject to the cards you are dealt, than the level of aggression you choose to show once you play a hand. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at this. It takes a ton of hands for "river AF" stat to actually mean something. [/ QUOTE ] how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, if you took my stats in 40 hand blocks, I don't think i'd have one block where I was 48/7 or anywhere close to that disparity in PFR/VPIP (I'm sure over some interval I have been but rare if ever).. take the same 40 hand blocks and see my AF and it's probably ranges from 0 to 20. So i'd say, yes VPIP/PFR requires way less of a sample size.. a 10/5 over 40 can be a 20/17 tag lifetime (this is common) , but not something like 50/5 (usually)
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#24
07-26-2007, 08:47 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With the strength of your line and villain's passiveness I do not really see him shoving anything that you beat. These passive players do not shove AJ/A9 on this river. [/ QUOTE ] Villain's river AF is 6. For a point of reference, mine is just under 2. [/ QUOTE ] It takes a high volume of hands for the river AF to actually mean something. Judging by his PF stats, he is a passive calling station. Which means he is calling with worse trips and shoving his boats. [/ QUOTE ] Wait, which is it...his stats don't mean anything or they mean he's passive? You can't have both. [/ QUOTE ] VPIP/PFR are much more reliable after 45 hands than river AF. Come on bilbo, you know what I am saying...lets not nit pick. [/ QUOTE ] actually, i've always considered the opposite to be true edit: i think that your vpip/pfr numbers are more subject to the cards you are dealt, than the level of aggression you choose to show once you play a hand. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at this. It takes a ton of hands for "river AF" stat to actually mean something. EDIT: Over 50 hands how many river cards does this villain actually see? River AF is basically saying he bets/raises the river at a good % when he gets there. How reliable can this stat be over a trial of 5 or 6 rivers? VPIP/PFR/AF over 50 hands has 50 trials, hence more accurate. Its really simple. [/ QUOTE ] what you have said about the river sample size is true, but i was really talking about the fact that his overall af isn't that low for having a vpip that high. edit: sample size aside.
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#25
07-26-2007, 08:52 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With the strength of your line and villain's passiveness I do not really see him shoving anything that you beat. These passive players do not shove AJ/A9 on this river. [/ QUOTE ] not sure why it's funny. how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? Villain's river AF is 6. For a point of reference, mine is just under 2. [/ QUOTE ] It takes a high volume of hands for the river AF to actually mean something. Judging by his PF stats, he is a passive calling station. Which means he is calling with worse trips and shoving his boats. [/ QUOTE ] Wait, which is it...his stats don't mean anything or they mean he's passive? You can't have both. [/ QUOTE ] VPIP/PFR are much more reliable after 45 hands than river AF. Come on bilbo, you know what I am saying...lets not nit pick. [/ QUOTE ] actually, i've always considered the opposite to be true edit: i think that your vpip/pfr numbers are more subject to the cards you are dealt, than the level of aggression you choose to show once you play a hand. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at this. It takes a ton of hands for "river AF" stat to actually mean something. [/ QUOTE ] how is this any less true for the vpip/pfr stats? [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, if you took my stats in 40 hand blocks, I don't think i'd have one block where I was 48/7 or anywhere close to that disparity in PFR/VPIP (I'm sure over some interval I have been but rare if ever).. take the same 40 hand blocks and see my AF and it's probably ranges from 0 to 20. So i'd say, yes VPIP/PFR requires way less of a sample size.. a 10/5 over 40 can be a 20/17 tag lifetime (this is common) , but not something like 50/5 (usually) [/ QUOTE ] more than anything i think this says that your pf requirements have some structure. i think a donk could have pretty wide swings in vpip #'s over 40-50 hands.
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#27
07-26-2007, 09:24 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
raise pf. bet the turn harder for value, you have a big hand and you want a big pot. And i call this bc here could easily have any A. tips A is the nuts mang.
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#29
07-26-2007, 09:30 PM
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Re: Trips faces river push, unraised pot...
i call this river... i was really surprised that most of you guys say this is an easy fold. Kid is a donk and has over 6 af on the river...ogod snapcall. His range is so wide, he might even be thinking you don't have an A and shove with a pair.
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