Yet another NYC raid

[*TT*]

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poker players seem to think that their places shouldn't get busted for the simple fact that to them, poker activities are moral and therefore shouldn't be a crime. Newsflash - this is the same line of thinking about 90% of criminals employ.

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No. Something that has no victims to me is not a crime. I know clubs are illegal but there is only so much police power in the city. The police have to be delegated to certain geographic locations and can only cover so much ground in a night. Why bust up a card game when there is more serious crime occurring?

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I don't mean to be rude, but your post comes across as naive. Its not like they are off looking to bust up card games every night, they are looking to bust up illegal businesses which is something the police department does every day in many sectors. Its their job, even the owners of these underground rooms understand and respect this.

If you want to change things you have to start by changing the state constitution, but the argument that illegal clubs have the right to operate is very thin in the eyes of a congressman so don't expect miracles.

In the eyes of the law there doesn't need to be a victim to be a crime.

[FireStorm]

To further what TT said (good post), they sure as hell aren't very tough when it comes to cracking down on this. The actual raids might be, but in terms of time, plenty of clubs get well over a year before anything happens, and raids aren't all that frequent. I know of places that are approaching two years, and we were running for about 11 months at the venue I was involved in that got busted.

[onoble]

I don't think underground rooms have a "right" to operate. They're illegal I get it.

And cops are just out doing their job and if they see illegal activity they stop it. Again, I get it.

However, cops, legislators, etc have something called "discretion." They make choices based on priorities. This happens all the time. This why these raids or crackdowns happen in waves. Right now they are making it a priority to raid underground rooms. That is their choice, and it is one they are empowered to make. What I wish is that they used more discretion and took on crimes that are more severe than playing cards.

At most, dealing running a room results in a misdemeanor. When a room is raided, overtime dollars are spent, resources are allocated and as a result taken away from other areas of the city. And for what? To take a couple of dealers to jail for a few hours? We could use these resources in better ways...

I know poker in NY is illegal. I wish it wasn't but that is a choice the legislature has made. The executive branch (cops, mayor, etc) does have the ability to use discretion. I wish in this case they would.

[jkeats]

is this the same west side club as last week?

[BrianBigNFun]

Here's my question-

am I to assume that if youre playing during a raid youre screwed as to the amount of money you have bought in for or have won? I kinda doubt the cops would let you cash in before leaving...

[*TT*]

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Right now they are making it a priority to raid underground rooms.

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no they aren't. None of the room operators I know believes that. Little known fact, Mayor Bloomberg is an avid poker player, he hosts an executive game on his boat in the Caribbean. So are countless cops, judges, etc. In fact I used to regularly play in an underground game that included a NYS Supreme Court judge, a producer for HBO who gave me secrets about upcoming Sunday night shows, and a drunken Irish pub operator who came to burn money. There is no great conspiracy, in fact if anything the anti-gambling people are pissed off that the cops look the other way for so long; they think there is a conspiracy to keep these rooms open!. Time to take the tinfoil hat off, lol.

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At most, dealing running a room results in a misdemeanor.

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Ever heard of organized crime? I have friends who have 6 month sentences going through the court system right now for operating and/or dealing, if the feds get involved they could use RICCO statutes (improperly of course but it could stick) and put these people away for a long time. Why do you think we have the policy that we have on 2+2? Its to help keep the players in NYC from hurting themselves.


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[FireStorm]

There is no discretionary element here. Places either get shut down or they dont. If police decide to not enforce the laws, they are letting crime occur in their midst with no action. It's either this, or shutting them down. These things only seem to happen in waves because it takes time to build cases and because it's easier to bang out 2 or 3 in one night.

[sivadom]

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Police don't have the right to simply ignore crimes as they please.

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I think this a common misconception, and, really, at the heart of what is wrong with the role of police in society. Laws are hard and fast if applied, but when and how often they are is another matter altogether, especially for relatively minor offenses. How many times have we all passed a radar trap travelling in slight excess of the speed limit, only to have the cop ignore us and wait for a 'bigger' offender? Many. The same principle applies at a higher level when the sergeant/commisioner/mayor/whoever motivates those under him to target specific crimes above others. The reasons can range from politics to need for greater ticket revenue to seeming personal whim. Giuliani's crackdown on jaywalking, anyone? Waaay OT, but just my 2c.

[FireStorm]

You make a decent point and this is something I thought of previously, but these are not offenses which carry potential jail times or have long term effects.

[*TT*]

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You make a decent point and this is something I thought of previously, but these are not offenses which carry potential jail times or have long term effects.

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you work in NJ rooms. Do you know the guys at the soccer club? They did time, it my my boy Jose miserable (which if you know Jose is hard to believe, he is always happy). My friend has a case in the NYC system now, his outlook isn't good, they are hoping for a shorter term penalty but its likely he will see the inside of a cell for a bit.

whatever you do, don't downplay the facts - working in these rooms are a great risk, far greater than playing.