Floor mistakenly called a hand dead

[domer2]

Alright this happened a while ago at Barona Valley Casino, but in reading this forum today I figured I might pose the scenario to see if I had any options at the time.

I don't really remember the pre-river betting exactly but the final scenario was a board that read:

10d 4d 8s As Ac

I had Ad 7d and was only in on the flop to try to catch a diamond...and ended up catching running Aces.

There was ~$300 in the pot and it was heads up. Opponent goes all-in for $300 and I have around $300 as well. I'm about 95% certain I am going to call for a number of reasons, but I took the time to go through exactly how the betting progressed.

I'm thinking for a good 90 seconds, guy at the table (not the opponent) calls Time and the floor is called over. As floor is walking over, I turn over my two cards directly in front of me. There was obviously no movement by me to indicate that I was folding and no one at the table made a big deal out of it.

Floor comes over, I ask him "how much time do I have?" He looks at the board, and says "No time, I'm declaring this hand dead." I'm like wtf? everyone else is like wtf? dealer has a quizzical look on his face, and the opponent looks like he was just set free from the electric chair. I try to make a case quickly, but the floor manager says to muck everything and award the opponent the pot. Dealer does this, opponent cashes out IMMEDIATELY (he gathered the pot, cashed his chips and left the poker room in probably under 90 seconds). I get up and follow the floor manager back to his desk and say "what was that?" and he says "that is a new rule we have here." And I say "Where is that in the rules?" knowing it's obviously not there and saying "I think you are confusing yourself with a tournament rule about revealing your hand." He blows it off, and after I see that my rational arguments are going nowhere with this goof, I just sit down, keep playing, and end up doing alright the rest of the session. Of note is that two other players at the table with me each went up to the floor manager and had words with him about what he did.

Now I just played there last night and a guy at the table turns over his two cards thinking of whether to call or not. The dealer says "I'd recommend not doing that" then looks at me knowingly (many of the dealers joke with me when im thinking of making a call -- "Whatever you do, don't turn them over!"). After that hand ended he mentioned to me that the floor manager admitted that he made a bad call on that hand. Little late on that call Mr. Floor Manager.

So the question is, if the floor makes a decision like this, and he mistakenly calls a hand dead, do I have any recourse whatsoever besides complaining? I assumed none which is why I eventually just gave up arguing with him (also in the interest of not being kicked out).

[baggins]

well, you can always ask to talk to HIS supervisor. but unless you really think that will do any good, it might be better to just let it go. after all, you DO have to play there again.

i'd be pissed.

then again, why did you turn over your cards? play it straight like a man. don't mess around with bush league tactics like that.

[pokerdoug1973]

Generally most rule books state "that an incorrect decision made by floor staff in good faith with give the player no recourse and you are basically screwed because you play in room with incompetent staff". Sorry

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Your situation is far from unique. Lots of people have had their hand inappropriately killed because of the perception that exposing your cards equals your hand is dead. This notion is the result of the large influx of stupidity into the poker world. A few cardrooms even make it a specific rule, even tho TDA rules say that you may be assessed a penalty if you do this, NOT "your hand is dead." What can I say except "welcome to friggin' disneyland."

Al

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
So the question is, if the floor makes a decision like this, and he mistakenly calls a hand dead, do I have any recourse whatsoever besides complaining?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really.

All decisions by floor are final.

Well, except in our room where some of the weak floors can be pushed around a bit. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

At best you might get them to have a meeting and review that sort of ruling. Doesn't help you much with this hand.

I love Al's answer!--LOL


b

[fatshark]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally most rule books state "that an incorrect decision made by floor staff in good faith with give the player no recourse and you are basically screwed because you play in room with incompetent staff". Sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

In that room, I'm sure you find a list of house rules. If they have the rule you pretty much do not have a leg to stand on:

All decisions made by the floor supervisor are final.

However, if you are a loyal guest, you may speak to the room manager and explain the situation in a calm demeanor and explain that you know that the decision cannot be reversed but hope that something can be done to compensate you for the unfortunate event; you may get something.

[allbad]

sounds like you are a douchebag and got what you deserved. Next time, when you're 95% sure you'll call just go ahead and do it instead of wasting everybody else's time.

[SmartBugger]

[ QUOTE ]
sounds like you are a douchebag and got what you deserved. Next time, when you're 95% sure you'll call just go ahead and do it instead of wasting everybody else's time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you having a bad day or something? He wasn't even slow-rolling. Taking time on a hand isn't bad when there is a big decision to think about. Consider this.... the opponent placed about 1/2 his stack in the pot against a chaser....which means he played the hand VERY strongly. Would a full-house be that rare in a situation like that? It is important to replay the hand in the back of your head so you don't rush to what looks like a lucky-river card.

[PantsOnFire]

That's unfortunate. You are obviously not going to get your money back from villain.

I would at the very least get someone at the casino to admit to the mistake. Then I might go for comps of some sort. Depending on the facilites at this place, you could ask for a weekend room and invite out of town friends, dinner and a show with your woman, etc.

[SammyG-SD]

I have done this before to see if I can get a final read on the opponent-but I 'usually' ask the dealer beforehand. Knowing Barona, I think you are SOL.