BURN AND TURN. Dealers Please!

[pokerdoug1973]

I am just looking into what good dealers would consider an average for say one year, or 2080 hours of being on shift. I know mistakes happen, and this is probably the most common dealer error that can really effect the game. I am in management and have a few dealers that burn and turn before action is complete more often than others.

What do you consider to be too often? Once per week? Once per month? Once or twice per year?

When I was dealing 10 years ago, I don't remember this being as big of a problem as it is now. I keep stats in a personal journal about my dealers and am starting to notice that a few of the poker dealers are making this mistake nearly every night while other dealers are never bringing a card prior to the completion of action.

Other than termination, what can I do?

[psandman]

I would say I do this at the most say once every three months. I deal a bit fewer hours than your hypothetical though. Then there are times where it is questionable as to if the dealer burnbed and turned early or did the button check. Guy on button is bouncing his hands dealer sees it as a check next thing you know there is turn up and button claims he wasn't checking


Dealers who do this frequnetly are generally trying to go to fast.

What can you do. Emphasis accuracy over speed in your evaluations of dealers and burn into their heads the fundamental of knocking on the table before they burn and turn.

[jh12547]

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I am just looking into what good dealers would consider an average for say one year, or 2080 hours of being on shift. I know mistakes happen, and this is probably the most common dealer error that can really effect the game. I am in management and have a few dealers that burn and turn before action is complete more often than others.

What do you consider to be too often? Once per week? Once per month? Once or twice per year?

When I was dealing 10 years ago, I don't remember this being as big of a problem as it is now. I keep stats in a personal journal about my dealers and am starting to notice that a few of the poker dealers are making this mistake nearly every night while other dealers are never bringing a card prior to the completion of action.

Other than termination, what can I do?

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Not to be rude but if you actually keep a journal about dealers you need to get a life. Concentrate more on family or friends and just suck it up to the fact that there are more and more games now then there were 10 yrs ago so you will find more dealers that just suck . Its the same with players as now there are more [censored] players then there were then just cuz there are more of them.

[*TT*]

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I am just looking into what good dealers would consider an average for say one year, or 2080 hours of being on shift. I know mistakes happen, and this is probably the most common dealer error that can really effect the game. I am in management and have a few dealers that burn and turn before action is complete more often than others.

What do you consider to be too often? Once per week? Once per month? Once or twice per year?

When I was dealing 10 years ago, I don't remember this being as big of a problem as it is now. I keep stats in a personal journal about my dealers and am starting to notice that a few of the poker dealers are making this mistake nearly every night while other dealers are never bringing a card prior to the completion of action.

Other than termination, what can I do?

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Not to be rude but if you actually keep a journal about dealers you need to get a life. Concentrate more on family or friends and just suck it up to the fact that there are more and more games now then there were 10 yrs ago so you will find more dealers that just suck . Its the same with players as now there are more [censored] players then there were then just cuz there are more of them.

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are you off the meds? That was way out in left field.

[crashjr]

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I am just looking into what good dealers would consider an average for say one year, or 2080 hours of being on shift. I know mistakes happen, and this is probably the most common dealer error that can really effect the game. I am in management and have a few dealers that burn and turn before action is complete more often than others.

What do you consider to be too often? Once per week? Once per month? Once or twice per year?

When I was dealing 10 years ago, I don't remember this being as big of a problem as it is now. I keep stats in a personal journal about my dealers and am starting to notice that a few of the poker dealers are making this mistake nearly every night while other dealers are never bringing a card prior to the completion of action.

Other than termination, what can I do?

[/ QUOTE ]


Not to be rude but if you actually keep a journal about dealers you need to get a life. Concentrate more on family or friends and just suck it up to the fact that there are more and more games now then there were 10 yrs ago so you will find more dealers that just suck . Its the same with players as now there are more [censored] players then there were then just cuz there are more of them.

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I am assuming your suck at reading comprehension. The man keeps a journal as part of his job. If you understood that, then whoa. Consider switching to decaf.

[*TT*]

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Other than termination, what can I do?

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IMHO this is a GREAT question. Its unfortunate that in most poker rooms the management are former dealers, not professional managers. Its great to see you ask a question to help improve the quality of your staff - congrats, so many managers are fearful of looking to outside help in their decision process.

I suggest budgeting in merit performance pay. Now there are many ways to impliment this concept, I will only provide one as an example.

Assuming you have systems in place to determine the house take per down and track which dealer is where on each down then a merit system could be constructed based where the employees get their share of the merit bonus pool (determined at the beginning of the fiscal year, this should be a fixed cost) based on two qualifications

1) Their share of the total percentage of the house take
2) A deduction from their share of the merit pool for each dealing infraction made.

The concept is simple, it encourages dealers to not only deal fast, but to also deal accurately. The challenge becomes management training, you must now conduct team meetings to discuss how dealing errors greatly reduce the take per down because an error takes more time to correct than dealing slower and more accurately would.

[psandman]

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Other than termination, what can I do?

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IMHO this is a GREAT question. Its unfortunate that in most poker rooms the management are former dealers, not professional managers. Its great to see you ask a question to help improve the quality of your staff - congrats, so many managers are fearful of looking to outside help in their decision process.

I suggest budgeting in merit performance pay. Now there are many ways to impliment this concept, I will only provide one as an example.

Assuming you have systems in place to determine the house take per down and track which dealer is where on each down then a merit system could be constructed based where the employees get their share of the merit bonus pool (determined at the beginning of the fiscal year, this should be a fixed cost) based on two qualifications

1) Their share of the total percentage of the house take
2) A deduction from their share of the merit pool for each dealing infraction made.

The concept is simple, it encourages dealers to not only deal fast, but to also deal accurately. The challenge becomes management training, you must now conduct team meetings to discuss how dealing errors greatly reduce the take per down because an error takes more time to correct than dealing slower and more accurately would.

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The problem this presents is that when you penalize dealers for every mistake they will try to fix their own mistakes to avoid penalty. This ends up being much worse.

While merit pay is not a bad idea strict formulas are problematic.

[BrianBigNFun]

Youre also assuming there's a budget allowed for incentives like this.

[pokerdoug1973]

I do actually have a life, and manage to work 50 hours per week as well. I would have a hard time believing that anyone working in poker management could do the job well without keeping a journal on dealer issues and floor decisions. For one, how else can the floor rulings be consistent, and also, when working with 20 dealers, (Small Casino) how else do you evaluate them fairly.

Psandman - Once in 90 days in my opinion is not often enough to be an issue. Especially as you describe the situation with the button, or last to act. When I was dealing (and I try to explain this to my dealers) If I announced "Four player's" as I brought the flop, it was automatic for me to not burn and turn until four player's acted. My dealers are constantly missing someone. It never seems to me to be something as simple as the last person to act, which I would consider to be an understandable mistake occasionally.

[*TT*]

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Other than termination, what can I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO this is a GREAT question. Its unfortunate that in most poker rooms the management are former dealers, not professional managers. Its great to see you ask a question to help improve the quality of your staff - congrats, so many managers are fearful of looking to outside help in their decision process.

I suggest budgeting in merit performance pay. Now there are many ways to impliment this concept, I will only provide one as an example.

Assuming you have systems in place to determine the house take per down and track which dealer is where on each down then a merit system could be constructed based where the employees get their share of the merit bonus pool (determined at the beginning of the fiscal year, this should be a fixed cost) based on two qualifications

1) Their share of the total percentage of the house take
2) A deduction from their share of the merit pool for each dealing infraction made.

The concept is simple, it encourages dealers to not only deal fast, but to also deal accurately. The challenge becomes management training, you must now conduct team meetings to discuss how dealing errors greatly reduce the take per down because an error takes more time to correct than dealing slower and more accurately would.

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The problem this presents is that when you penalize dealers for every mistake they will try to fix their own mistakes to avoid penalty. This ends up being much worse.

While merit pay is not a bad idea strict formulas are problematic.

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How is providing a reward a penalty? Its an incentive for good performance, not a penalty.