a hand i butchered

[ProfessorBen]

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You're leaving money on the table.

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Can you give handranges for a TAG limping UTG and another TAG who raised when only he is in the pot? I doubt you're missing any significant equity here even if the coldcaller is playing random cards.

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Xhad: I think it's closer than I'm making it sound like when I say "leaving money on the table" but we have the button, perfect relative position between the bad player and the preflop raiser, and a strong drawing hand. I think it's a fold if you're uncomfortable playing 1 pair hands postflop, but if you play them well, I do think you're leaving money on the table. You're right that it may not be significant or worth debating about. Again, I don't think it's the meat of the hand.

[LukeSLTS]

I would fold on the flop. Me = Weak/tight.

[ProfessorBen]

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I would fold on the flop. Me = Weak/tight.

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This is definitely leaving moeny on the table. You have clear odds to call, much less protect your hand.

[ssmallz]

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The river is not a good application of the Clarkmeister theorem.

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If I remember right, the Clarkmeister theorem actually specifies that we are out of position when the 4th suited card comes, so it technically doesn't apply here. It seems to me that the basic tenants are the same, though (especially that it's an easy fold to a raise).

Regardless of the clark. theorem, though, you don't think it's worth a bet here to try and pick up the pot if neither opponent has a big heart?

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The reason the clarkmeister theorum works is that the decision on whether to bet vs check oop is counterbalanced by the hands that your opponent will bet when you check to him. Since you are in position your opponent cannot bet or check based on your actions so it becomes a strait value bet.

[elena_elphie]

Table change preflop, there's almost always at least one good 20 table, and if not it is a short hop over to Garden City.

I also fold preflop, but its close. I like the way you played the rest of the hand.

[elena_elphie]

I think limping utg and coldcalling 2 on the flop is a sign that he is not really a true TAG. So his hand range becomes somewhat larger than say a 2+2er sort of TAG. Which means I don't really feel comfortable folding on the turn because I'm not necessarily crushed, although I am fairly likely beat I would agree.

[Garland]

I'll add my two cents after hearing everyone's comment.

I don't mind the play after the flop. But I've heard people say they want to play KTs on the button to a raise against the described people. Let's say you have KTo. Would there be any debate to fold or call?

Being suited is only marginally better than it's KTo brother, and against said lineup, you're in constant fear of domination on the K vs AK, KQ, KJ and the T by AT. Although this is mitigated by the fact you have position and can play fairly well.

I'm not saying that I would never call KTs on button to a raise, but you have to look who's in the pot already, who raised, how many people he's raised and what you're likely up against. In this particular case, I'd much rather have a hand like T9s or JTs to gamble with than KTs.

Again, my 2 cents.

Garland

[Vehn]

august fools? preflop is bad, not terrible but still bad, you are simply dominated here all the time. I would call only if the blinds are very loose. Flop is simply disgustingly bad. WHAT ARE YOU DOING??

[counterspell]

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I think limping utg and coldcalling 2 on the flop is a sign that he is not really a true TAG. So his hand range becomes somewhat larger than say a 2+2er sort of TAG. Which means I don't really feel comfortable folding on the turn because I'm not necessarily crushed, although I am fairly likely beat I would agree.

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yeah after this hand i revised my opinion of the limper, but obv. better to give the read of him i had when the hand occured.

[counterspell]

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august fools? preflop is bad, not terrible but still bad, you are simply dominated here all the time. I would call only if the blinds are very loose. Flop is simply disgustingly bad. WHAT ARE YOU DOING??

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thx for your time.