Harrah’s Kansas City - could you please spread the pot

[Mr. Mojo31]

So last night I’m playing NL up at Harrah’s Kansas City.

There’s some preflop limping to me (I’m in the cutoff in seat 2), I look down at pocket queens, I pop it up a standard amount. My phone rings, I pull it out of my pocket, send it to voicemail, turn it on vibrate and throw it back in my pocket. Then the waitress taps my shoulder and hands me the bottled water, the one I’d ordered three years ago, at that exact moment. I tip her and finally turn back to the table.

The action is on me. The board is K-9-2 with two hearts.

From what I can tell an early position betting station bet what looked to be half the pot and 1,2 or 3 people mucked. I couldn’t be certain b/c there was a pyramid of chips piled in the middle of the pot. From my seat it looked like 5 reds were sitting on top of a heap with three or four other chips lying underneath. The reds were covering them to the point where I couldn’t tell how many or what color was under there. So I asked the dealer, “could you please spread the pot?”

“No.”

I’m sorry, I’m not asking you to count it or stack it for me.” I said, “I just need you to spread it for me, so I can tell how much is in there.”

He replied in a very annoyed voice, “No, I can’t do that, we’re not allowed to spread the pot.” So I asked him to call the floor. He did and the floorman provided the same response. He took the same tone as the dealer – like he was annoyed to even be asked. Now I’m jut a recreational player, but this is my home card room. I play here about three times a month. I can remember countless times where the dealers have spread the pot for other players or for me. When the floor man ruled against spreading the pot, I would have liked an explanation, but didn't want to hold the game up anymore, so I let it go.

I racked up about an orbit later and looked for him, but he was either on break or gone.

Has anyone else ever heard of a card room that won’t spread the pot? What is the reasoning behind the refusal to play the pot?

[psandman]

ONE MORE TIME PLEASE PEOPLE -- DEALERS CAN'T SPREAD THE POT FOR YOU.

BUT THERE IS ZERO EXCUSE FOR YOUR NOT BEING ABLE TO CALCULATE THE POT.

[Mr. Mojo31]

All caps. Very nice.

My inability to follow the preflop action aside; what is the reasoning behind refusing to spread a pot? I've played all over the country, and have never run across this. I guess it's because 99 percent of the time I know what's in the pot, and have never had to ask.

[youtalkfunny]

A dealer can't steal chips from the pot if he is barred from touching them.

The less a dealer puts his hands into the pot, the better. This is for your protection.

[Mr. Mojo31]

Thank you.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
ONE MORE TIME PLEASE PEOPLE -- DEALERS CAN'T SPREAD THE POT FOR YOU.

BUT THERE IS ZERO EXCUSE FOR YOUR NOT BEING ABLE TO CALCULATE THE POT.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT 100%

[AKQJ10]

I don't really understand the impediment to you doing the math, unless you don't know how many people called preflop but folded to the flop bet (i.e., you didn't hear the dealer announce the number of flop players). So estimate two flop folders (average of 1, 2, and 3) and leave it at that.

I was under the impression that dealers could spread the pot on request but otherwise should avoid touching it. Certainly when there are high-denomination chips underneath the standard chips for the game in play ($5 reds) the dealer should either keep them visible or color them out.

What if you had asked the dealer to color out the high-denom chips? Did you consider this compromise?

[Taso]

There was a large argument about this on HSP season 2. Eli asked them to spread the pot, Anon Filipe said they can't do that, Negreanu said they definitly can, he was 100% sure about it, and Eli was very angry that Amnon or whatever his name is was saying it wasn't allowed.

From what I gathered listening, Eli and Daniel (and maybe Gabe doing the commentary) seemed to think only in pot limit games are the dealers not allowed to spread the pot, but in no limit they can.

[TheStation]

The room mgr for harrahs KC is a 2+2er also, hopefully he sees this thread. Before he took over the room you could actually ask them to count the pot mid-hand and they would do it for you. It was pretty sick and pissed me off and I loved it when they finally got the dealers hands out of the pot.

I would have asked the dealer how many people saw the flop as they normally announce that and figure out the pot from that.

[psandman]

Also this nonsense slows down a game.

I dealt in a room where the directed me to spread the pot (He believes that the TDA specifically rules allow it). Now in tournament play your concern about theft is smaller (though you still be concerned that a dealer is stealing chips from the pot to give to another player obviously it has no value to the dealer alone).

So now a player asks me to sprea dthe pot, so I spread it. Well why do they ask you to spread because they are going to count each chip so now the game comes to a stand still while this guy counts each chip. Then there is a little pile still there so he wants it spread further (hopefully he asks you to spread it some more but many of these chuckleheads don't see a problem with reaching in themseleves).


Once in a cash game I had a player ask me how much was in the pot, I told him I couldn't tell him. So he asked me to spread the pot. I told him I couldn't do that. That resulted in a floor call. The floor tells me to spread the pot. 5 minutes later when this guy is done counting (and his lips had to move as he counted) the hand proceeds. After the down is over I go to the floor and ask him why he did that -- he told me he knew it was wrong he just didn't want to have to argue with the player. I told him in the future then he could save us all time and let me tell the player how much was in the pot.