Help me, please!

[mr_suspekt]

I need help! I’ve been playing on Party where I been running like 5BB/100 over 100k hands ($.10/.25-$1/2) but recently I started playing on Ladbrokes instead because of tax and rake back issuses. The only problem is that I have played more than 12k hands and only made a $20 profit playing mostly $.50/1!!

The game over at Ladbrokes is totally different from the game that I’m used to, and the winning players here are like 35/5/1 which to me seem absurd! Post oak bluffing (without coming over the top on any street with flopped 2nd/3rd nuts on draw heavy boards) seems like standard and min-raising is also the 2nd most (1st is of course calling down) popular move which apparently can be used from any position at any time.

When I was playing at Party I was running 29/15/2 and since that seemed to be working I adapted the same style to Ladbrokes, but because of the fact that people were floating and min-raising my c-bets everytime I hade to change tactics so now I’m running like 22/12/1.8 but still I feel that I’m not playing optimal against my opponents.

So what should I do? I had a couple of sessions where I tried to 2nd and also 3rd barrel a lot when I thought I could get them off like mid pair and stuff but it felt too much like a minefield and too high varience.

Hand example (standard):

** Game ID 772104861 starting - 2007-06-17 01:44:04
** Bey [Hold 'em] (0.50|1.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Doc__ sitting in seat 1 with $35.18
- Fr3ak sitting in seat 2 with $30.05
- mr_suspekt sitting in seat 3 with $84.00 [Dealer]
- ozze sitting in seat 5 with $115.31
- e_r_b sitting in seat 6 with $247.20

ozze posted the small blind - $0.50
e_r_b posted the big blind - $1.00
** Dealing card to mr_suspekt: Ace of Spades, 6 of Spades
Doc__ folded
Fr3ak folded
mr_suspekt raised - $4.00
ozze called - $4.00
e_r_b folded

** Dealing the flop: Jack of Clubs, King of Clubs, 8 of Diamonds
ozze checked
mr_suspekt bet - $6.00
ozze called - $6.00

** Dealing the turn: 5 of Diamonds
ozze bet - $5.25
mr_suspekt raised - $16.00
ozze called - $16.00

** Dealing the river: 7 of Hearts
ozze bet - $6.40
mr_suspekt raised - $50.00
ozze called - $50.00
mr_suspekt shows: Ace of Spades, 6 of Spades
ozze shows: 8 of Clubs, 8 of Spades
ozze wins $151.00 from the main pot

End of game 772104861

Help!

[Montezuma21]

you won't get a lot of answers to this post.

1. convert hands.

2. don't worry too much about stats.

3. increasing your double and triple barreling frequency just for the hell of it is worse than useless. you need to learn WHEN to use it profitably, just like everything else. double and triple barreling is highly opponent dependent and should very rarely be used without a read. it semms to me that the way your post is written you might have some serious leaks in your game. posting hands and responding to posts will help a lot. as will reading the stickies.

4. whine in BBV, not here.

5. learn to speak english (no offence meant btw)

6. readless i fold the turn (assuming i read the hand right)

[4_2_it]

Check out the posts int he sticky. There are several that you would probably find very beneficial.

[mertzo]

20k hands could be variance

[thekernel]

first off, your stats are way too fishy. try to bring it to 20/18ish and against such weak opponents value bet and RARELY bluff. the reason we dont double or triple barrel these jokers is the same reason we value bet them like crazy when we hit TPGK+.

now the hand you played...
1. pf is fine.
2. flop is terrible to c-bet. look how scary it is. villain hits this flop soooooo often, i would probly check. As played though, it's not too bad to take a stab at the pot.
3. turn is spewage. he called flop bet. you are done with the hand. what are you trying to push him off except a pure bluff (which is pretty much never given the board texture)?
4. River: see #3

[mr_suspekt]

[ QUOTE ]
you won't get a lot of answers to this post.

1. convert hands.

2. don't worry too much about stats.

3. increasing your double and triple barreling frequency just for the hell of it is worse than useless. you need to learn WHEN to use it profitably, just like everything else. double and triple barreling is highly opponent dependent and should very rarely be used without a read. it semms to me that the way your post is written you might have some serious leaks in your game. posting hands and responding to posts will help a lot. as will reading the stickies.

4. whine in BBV, not here.

5. learn to speak english (no offence meant btw)

6. readless i fold the turn (assuming i read the hand right)

[/ QUOTE ]

1. ok
2. Since I found the game so different on Ladbrokes to Party i thought it would best be described with stats.
3. If the Ladbrokes players sees too many flops I assume that their holdings might not be AA KK AK-type hands every hand, so if they limp with K3o and flops comes AK7 I'm certain they will call a c-bet but hopefully not a second barrel ui. If my opponents limps less I will give them credit for "real" hands and not second barrel as much. If we take the AK7 flop for an example I think it's +ev to fire a second barrel since we fold out 22-QQ, 75-7Q, K2-KQ, QJ, QT, JT and sometimes even A2-A6, this might seem like a too wide range but when a player has >40VPIP I think it's not too off.
4. yup, sorry
5. working on it (non taken)
6. when multitabling it's hard to have reads on every player but his line was read enough, i thought, to 3barrel on river.

[Nielsio]

Learn to read players.

[mr_suspekt]

[ QUOTE ]
first off, your stats are way too fishy. try to bring it to 20/18ish and against such weak opponents value bet and RARELY bluff. the reason we dont double or triple barrel these jokers is the same reason we value bet them like crazy when we hit TPGK+.

now the hand you played...
1. pf is fine.
2. flop is terrible to c-bet. look how scary it is. villain hits this flop soooooo often, i would probly check. As played though, it's not too bad to take a stab at the pot.
3. turn is spewage. he called flop bet. you are done with the hand. what are you trying to push him off except a pure bluff (which is pretty much never given the board texture)?
4. River: see #3

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider myself to be a fish but that is perhaps a common trait by fish...

1. thanks

2. I agree that it is a scary board but HU I still think it often misses both players and you have to remember that it's not only scary for me but hopefully for him as well. I think it's ok to bet here since I believe that we are both deep enough to find out what kind of hand he has and get him off a lot of hands that he can call my c-bet with like J7-JA, 86-8A + any pp except 88 JJ KK and AA and also a missed draw. (This is what I thought up until now, but this hand and other similar hands has made me reconsider and make this post about maybe changing tactics for future hands on this particular level).

3. His call on the flop was of course not what I had hoped for and I was about to give up the hand when he bet like 1/5 of the pot in to me. This must mean that A: He got a weak pair 8s Js or perhaps an extremly weak K and just want a cheap showdown because if he would have had AK or KQ he would surely want to extract some more value from his hand and not give me sweet odds to draw to just about any hand that beats his pair. B: He is on a draw and wants to draw to it cheaply by making some kind of stop bet. C: He has air and think that his bet will make me fold A-high. D: He has a monster like 888, JJJ, KKK, KJ, K8 or J8 and is planning on making this extremly weak bet to induce a raise by me, I use this line sometimes oop if my opponent is very aggressive but if I had a monster here I would of course reraise big since there are so many draws out there that could easily kill my hand. If these are my options I think that it is def +EV to raise pot here and if he only calls then fire a third barrel on a blank river since A,B,C can't call me and D is not an option if i only calls.

4. The river is not as blank as I would have hoped since he could easily have 9T for a rivered straight. But when he only bets 1/5 of the pot and I have shown strength throughout the hand I would assume that he was planning to get more value once he hit. His move here is definately a stop bet with a one paired hand and I'm not falling for that one so I once again bet pot in an attempt to represent AK, KJ, KQ, K8 or a set.

The question that I wanted to get an answer to with my post was if I should perhaps save these types of analysis and LAG-play for another level and just play my cards against these weak opponents or if I should continue with my game?