$20 Deepstack - river line with 2pr.

benneh · #1 09-21-2007, 10:50 PM

about 20 from money, i am 4th in chips this hand. villain is 30/20/3. i havn't played a pot with him but i've been pretty aggressive and a bit of a luckbox at this table getting AA > KK, AA > AK, and a few other cooler hands.

river seems like a very thin spot. what can he call with that I beat besides AK? and the only AK that calls the flop is AKss. seems like a very thin spot.. standard check behind?

btw, antes are missing. my flop bet was just under pot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB (t44728)
BB (t40582)
UTG (t50895)
MP (t40293)
Hero (t76343)
Button (t30886)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t1200, MP calls t1200, Hero calls t1200, 2 folds, BB calls t800.

Flop: (t4525) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets t5000, BB folds, UTG calls t5000, MP folds.

Turn: (t14525) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t3200, Hero raises to t14000, UTG calls t10800.

River: (t42525) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t42525

Coz · #2 09-21-2007, 11:38 PM

I was thinking he might have something like KJ, he could have something like AK suited or AQ, or QJ, or KQ, hell JT could be a possibilty too. I think he has something like a combo, I am sure a set or just a pair would of raised the flop. I am not to crazy about the turn raise, he called a pot sized bet on the flop, the turn compeleted 1 draw for a bunch of hands, if he still does have a draw I doubt he is folding it after the money he put in on the flop, therefore, I believe you have little to no FE. If you wanted to rasie, 2.5x his raise would have gotten all the info you needed, that huge raise you put in just bloats the pot when you don't have too much FE and you could already be drawing incredibly slim. I would have just called and tried to spike a 9 or T on the river, or at least get a cheap showdown. As played I definetly check behind on river, you are not getting called by a worse hand.

benneh · #3 09-21-2007, 11:54 PM

my turn raise was to lower pot and implied odds on flush and two pair draws. i didn't think he had KJ, since i think KJ is always reraising this drawy flop. his turn line looks a LOT like a flush draw trying to block the turn so he can get very good odds to hit and by repopping to 8k, i'm not letting him make any mistakes. i can get the same information with both these raises (if he shoves over, i am likely beat), but i don't induce any mistakes.

Coz · #4 09-22-2007, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
my turn raise was to lower pot and implied odds on flush and two pair draws. i didn't think he had KJ, since i think KJ is always reraising this drawy flop. his turn line looks a LOT like a flush draw trying to block the turn so he can get very good odds to hit and by repopping to 8k, i'm not letting him make any mistakes. i can get the same information with both these raises (if he shoves over, i am likely beat), but i don't induce any mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you his turn line does look like a flush draw, however, then he called a monster re-raise, which diminishes that theory. I see him checking the river to induce a bluff. You want to diminish his pot odds I understand, but you are not doing that by overinflating a pot that you really have no idea where you stand, and the fact that you have little to no FE.

erc007 · #5 09-22-2007, 01:32 AM

Once you raise the turn, i think that's the last bit of value that you're going to get from the hands that u beat in his range. You def have to raise the turn when he donks it for 3200, i'm just wondering if there's an alternative to raising the turn to 14K. If u make a sm raise to 7500, u deny him the pot odds for most draws, but that size raise looks even stronger, so AK;AJ might not pay you off if u bet 1/2 the pot ~15K (after raising turn to 7500), on the river.

benneh · #6 09-22-2007, 02:00 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
my turn raise was to lower pot and implied odds on flush and two pair draws. i didn't think he had KJ, since i think KJ is always reraising this drawy flop. his turn line looks a LOT like a flush draw trying to block the turn so he can get very good odds to hit and by repopping to 8k, i'm not letting him make any mistakes. i can get the same information with both these raises (if he shoves over, i am likely beat), but i don't induce any mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you his turn line does look like a flush draw, however, then he called a monster re-raise, which diminishes that theory. I see him checking the river to induce a bluff. You want to diminish his pot odds I understand, but you are not doing that by overinflating a pot that you really have no idea where you stand, and the fact that you have little to no FE.

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i agree, after calling that big raise it doesn't look like a flush draw anymore. however, we are trying to figure out the best line for a hero in a similar situation that doesn't know for sure if villain has a flush draw on this board or not. you still contend that flatting the turn is correct in all instances similar to the one above?

(kind of confused myself there. i will elaborate more if you don't understand what i'm saying/asking)

Coz · #7 09-22-2007, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my turn raise was to lower pot and implied odds on flush and two pair draws. i didn't think he had KJ, since i think KJ is always reraising this drawy flop. his turn line looks a LOT like a flush draw trying to block the turn so he can get very good odds to hit and by repopping to 8k, i'm not letting him make any mistakes. i can get the same information with both these raises (if he shoves over, i am likely beat), but i don't induce any mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you his turn line does look like a flush draw, however, then he called a monster re-raise, which diminishes that theory. I see him checking the river to induce a bluff. You want to diminish his pot odds I understand, but you are not doing that by overinflating a pot that you really have no idea where you stand, and the fact that you have little to no FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, after calling that big raise it doesn't look like a flush draw anymore. however, we are trying to figure out the best line for a hero in a similar situation that doesn't know for sure if villain has a flush draw on this board or not. you still contend that flatting the turn is correct in all instances similar to the one above?

(kind of confused myself there. i will elaborate more if you don't understand what i'm saying/asking)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I still think that calling the turn is the best way to go, I just think we are beat to often by something like two pair or a set. AA could also have just flat called the flop as well. I think that trying to get to a cheap showdown is best because we are not folding, a combo draw or set, and there aren't too many top pair hands out there that are in his range that didn't hit two pair on the turn.