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#12
08-29-2006, 11:57 PM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
I am still learning good tournament play but I think that you should have bet the flop, turn bet could have been higher. As far as the river, a check-raise might not work and I think that the only raise you are going to encounter would be from a guy with trips.
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#13
08-30-2006, 12:00 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going out on a limb here: The river check raise is NEVER the correct move online. Discuss. [/ QUOTE ] Oh c'mon, you know better than to say something all encompassing like that, especially when you read HSNL [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It's not *usually* correct, though, because it's so highly player specific.
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#14
08-30-2006, 12:02 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm going out on a limb here: The river check raise is NEVER the correct move online. Discuss. [/ QUOTE ] Oh c'mon, you know better than to say something all encompassing like that, especially when you read HSNL [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It's not *usually* correct, though, because it's so highly player specific. [/ QUOTE ] OK OK, I was being somewhat absolute about it because it sounds cooler that way. But I think you summed up the gist of my point.
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#15
08-30-2006, 12:03 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going out on a limb here: The river check raise is NEVER the correct move online. Discuss. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't play this hand perfectly, but I liked this one. Its not a donkament, but....AA is the nuts baby!! (I did plan on c/c the river after mangling PF and flop, but his little bet made me want to raise) PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) Button ($172.45) SB ($36.65) Hero ($207.30) UTG ($211.55) MP ($230.05) CO ($217) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls $4. Flop: ($13) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, UTG calls $10. Turn: ($33) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $24</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $48</font>, Hero calls $24. River: ($129) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $24</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $143.3</font>, UTG calls $119.30. Final Pot: $415.60 Results: Hero has Ac As (two pair, aces and sevens). UTG has Ad Qd (two pair, queens and sevens). Outcome: Hero wins $415.60. edit: a worse hand never calls?......um, yeah they do
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#16
08-30-2006, 12:15 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going out on a limb here: The river check raise is NEVER the correct move online. Discuss. [/ QUOTE ] Obv this is an exaggeration, but I think I see your point. The river c/r is a bit annoying to think about because you have to compare it to a few alternative lines and you have to consider the likelihood of a check behind and stuff. But, I'm pretty sure that it has a very important place in a balanced strategy. If your opponent plays perfectly, then it's important to c/r on the river occasionally because it will force him to bet the river in position less, both as a bluff and a value bet. It also makes river OOP checks narrow your range much less. (I know that my current river checking range in any pot with decent action before the river is currently really well defined and very exploitable. I assume I'll have to fix this if I wanna be +EV or just less -EV against great players.) If your opponent isn't perfect ([img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]) and he doesn't respond to this.. i.e., he bets the river too frequently, then exploit that by c/ring more than you would against a perfect opponent. Either way, though, it's a very rare move. The reason that it's rare (I think) is that it rarely makes sense to c/r the river as a bluff if you and your opponent play reasonably. Since most of your bluffing hands on the river are missed draws, and since decent opponents don't often bet the river in position with marginal holdings on drawy boards, you can't bluff here very frequently without playing exploitably. Plus, raising as a pure bluff is very expensive in NL, which is why semibluffing is so expensive. But semibluffing on the river is a move a still haven't learned. Anyway, since you can't bluff c/r frequently on the river without playing really exploitably, you also can't value bet c/r on the river very frequently without playing exploitably.
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#17
08-30-2006, 12:38 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
Noah,
I really like big picture, conceptual posts like this. I too feel like the river c/r is lacking from my game, and now I know why.
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#18
08-30-2006, 01:05 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
I don't like the raise here at all - check call yes, preferably bet the river but you are only going to lose chips with the raise - only get called if you are beat
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#20
08-30-2006, 01:08 AM
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Re: it occurs to me i don\'t check-raise the river enough
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the raise here at all - check call yes, preferably bet the river but you are only going to lose chips with the raise - only get called if you are beat [/ QUOTE ] Show your work please.
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