50NL - Overpair on paired board facing a raise, call or shove

[scallop]

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You really think he limps from c/o w TT+?

Sorry maybe I dont understand your post, but are you saying folding? Because his c/r = 9x?

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Read the whole post again, its all there - My flowing thoughts, in order without reading responses.

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Lol - sorry - I read your whole post WHILST posting, and was still too lazy to comment properly.

I just feel that folding means you put him on 9x and that is only a small part of his range.

[NL Newbie]

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You really think he limps from c/o w TT+?

Sorry maybe I dont understand your post, but are you saying folding? Because his c/r = 9x?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the whole post again, its all there - My flowing thoughts, in order without reading responses.

[/ QUOTE ]


Lol - sorry - I read your whole post WHILST posting, and was still too lazy to comment properly.

I just feel that folding means you put him on 9x and that is only a small part of his range.

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Think about it more mate, he's 40+VPIP, so he's playing nearly 50% of hands right.

two 9's on the flop mean 2 left in the unknown deck.

Just because there are 2 left, doesn't mean they are a small part of his range.

Remember 40+VPIP = J9, Q9, 98, 9T, Maybe 79s, K9, A9.
You've got to multiway the J(4) * the 9 (2) = 8 combos of J9 alone.

Compare this to TT(which as i said, he probably NEVER limps with 16PFR) = 6 combos.

So j9 alone beats that.

Hopefully its clear now that its actually a MASSIVE part of his nonbluffing range.

However we've gotta add in air/slowplayed AA-TT/Others.
small pot, 1pair must also be highlighted.

[scallop]

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Hopefully its clear now that its actually a MASSIVE part of his nonbluffing range.

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Its a massive part of his non-bluffing range. Thats obvious.

In fact it's efectively 100% of his bluffing range vs our hand, because anything else is effective a bluff (88=Air).

The central question is how often does he have a 9 and how often does he have the rest of his range (which you beat).

[NL Newbie]

We don't know, OP may have an idea and if he feels he's good then ok.

However it seems everyones thinking
"Villan slow plays a 9x"
"Villan calls our preflop RERAISE, then watches us CBET INTO 2 PLAYERS, then CHECK RAISES US with air".
"Villans bluffing loads here"

I dont buy either one, certainly not for $50.

[scallop]

Ok, so you think he has 9 here almost always and you fold. I guess thats fine.

[Perk76]

For me its not like he is slow playing 9x. His flop raise is 4 times our bet. Surely this would be the spot for the dreaded miniraise on flop or the standard flop raise? Why the overbet?

I would get a feeling that villan is trying to bluff the 9 in this hand and would play the hand for 1 buyin. And to do that I think calling and getting it in on the turn gets the most value from air.

[Rythm]

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"Villan calls our preflop RERAISE, then watches us CBET INTO 2 PLAYERS, then CHECK RAISES US with air".
"Villans bluffing loads here"

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It's not a reraise, it's just a raise. Villain limp-called.

OP, I think the big question is how often he does this with air or some kind of hand that he turns into air without knowing it. Since you said that you're not worried about being behind his range I'll have to assume that he does it a lot, since 77+ seems unlikely with those stats and he has a ton of 9s in his limping range. If that's the case it seems better by far to just call, since he'll have a weak hand so often that won't be able to call a push but may fire again on the turn.

[ASPoker8]

call

then put all of your chips in on the turn no matter what happens (even if its an A)

[clowntable]

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You really think he limps from c/o w TT+?

Sorry maybe I dont understand your post, but are you saying folding? Because his c/r = 9x?

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Should have put that in the OP as it's very important info. According to a note I have on him I've seen him limp/call JJ once before that's why I'd include TT/JJ in his range but it might have just been one case of mixing it up.
At the time I also had a mild feeling that he was starting to get pissed at me so I'd guess inducing a second bluff could work some times. Realistically though if we call here I don't expect him to fire with air often on the turn
Thx for the replies so far [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Edit: He's pretty lose but not a terrible player btw in my opinion

[NL Newbie]

Well then what i say in my first post remains, if hes bluffing/pissed off/could have pairs here then call down.

but dont throw out a raise.