Is this a leak or is it +EV?

[TxRedMan]

Two fairly similar situations. I know this isn't *standard* because I very rarely see my opponents make this play. Still can't decide, and this applies mostly to six max and short handed, but not to heads up or three handed. Three handed I dont make these plays, nine or ten handed this differs greatly.

Six handed, I'm dealt AA97 no suits UTG. In a game with two other players who I consider strong and aggressive, I'm mucking this hand UTG. Comments?

Six max, I'm dealt AAKQ, or AAK8 suited etc., UTG, I'm limping this hand the majority of the time. Reason being I'm going to be out of position most of the time and I'm rarely going to get action in a tough game when I'm a considerable favorite, but the most important reason I see is that I have to give up or get free rolled on so many flops. The only benefit to playing a hand like that this way UTG is that it's disguised. Thoughts on this?


Next situation is one where I'm in the BB with a hand like AKQJ or KQQJ, something of that sort. Folds around to the SB and he raises. I call with these hands, but I rarely three bet, and find that I'm insta-mucking to a bet on nearly any flop with two low cards.

Thoughts in general, or more specific?

[franknagaijr]

Preface - I play PLO8, so my comments have little bearing on your game.

[ QUOTE ]
Six handed, I'm dealt AA97 no suits UTG. In a game with two other players who I consider strong and aggressive, I'm mucking this hand UTG. Comments?


[/ QUOTE ]

AA97r is indeed a trouble hand. If anybody hits a low, they have to totally brick the high in order for you to chop. In a tournament, I toss troubled naked aces from early position at an agressive table. In a ring game or at a cheap blind level, I might set mine with these, but only at a full table.

[ QUOTE ]

Six max, I'm dealt AAKQ, or AAK8 suited etc., UTG, I'm limping this hand the majority of the time. Reason being I'm going to be out of position most of the time and I'm rarey going to get action in a tough game when I'm a considerable favorite, but the most important reason I see is that I have to give up or get free rolled on so many flops. The only benefit to playing a hand like that this way UTG is that it's disguised. Thoughts on this?


[/ QUOTE ]
High only pretties from early position. Seems like if you raise 'em, you're likely to get action precisely from hands that will be free-rolling for the high, as you say. This also leaves you in good position to three bet or repot 'em if aggro-boy is getting out of line.

Of course, you're balancing out your UTG limps so you're not predictable. Don't know why I asked.

[Micturition Man]

Definitely a leak imo to fold or limp any AAxx first in 6-max (unless maybe to limp-reraise).

When you have two aces in your hand your steal equity goes way up, and even if you get heads up you're still in decent to good shape.

If the game were truly super loose I guess I could see mucking AA97 rainbow or similar.

Note this is all for 6-max.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Six handed, I'm dealt AA97 no suits UTG. In a game with two other players who I consider strong and aggressive, I'm mucking this hand UTG. Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]Tex - I think you either raise with it or muck it. One problem with raising with the hand UTG is your strong opponents will strongly suspect you have a hand with a pair of aces, or at least a pushing type hand. A second problem is you will not get a favorable flop very often, and when you flop an ace or a nine high straight, it will most often be for half the pot. Folding it UTG is probably the best choice.

[ QUOTE ]
Six max, I'm dealt AAKQ, or AAK8 suited etc., UTG, I'm limping this hand the majority of the time. Reason being I'm going to be out of position most of the time and I'm rarely going to get action in a tough game when I'm a considerable favorite, but the most important reason I see is that I have to give up or get free rolled on so many flops. The only benefit to playing a hand like that this way UTG is that it's disguised. Thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]Both of those hands are clearly stronger than AA97 in a six handed game. But they're both one way hands and an ace on the flop may help an opponent make a low. I'd generally limp with them. As above, you telegraph your aces when you raise UTG.

[ QUOTE ]
Next situation is one where I'm in the BB with a hand like AKQJ or KQQJ, something of that sort. Folds around to the SB and he raises. I call with these hands, but I rarely three bet, and find that I'm insta-mucking to a bet on nearly any flop with two low cards.

[/ QUOTE ]Highly opponent (SB) dependent. Trouble is, you won't like more flops than you'll like. If you never pop back (re-raise), your opponent will tend to bet the flop and then you're in an awkward situation. In addition, if you don't re-raise often, some aggressive opponents will usually raise rather than complete.

In other words, by playing these hands passively, you're encouraging your opponent to play more aggressively against you. That can work out well for you if you get a very favorable flop, but usually you'll get what looks like an unfavorable flop. When you have four aceless high cards, three out of four possible flops will have either two or three low cards. The one out of four flops with two or three high cards won't necessarily fit your hand better than your opponent's hand.

Buzz

[Micturition Man]

Are we not talking about LO8 6-handed here?

If we are, how does raising utg give away you have aces?

If we aren't I take back my earlier post.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Are we not talking about LO8 6-handed here?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
If we are, how does raising utg give away you have aces?

[/ QUOTE ]Hard to answer this. It depends quite a bit on how you play and on how your play is perceived by your opponents.

Buzz

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are we not talking about LO8 6-handed here?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
If we are, how does raising utg give away you have aces?

[/ QUOTE ]Hard to answer this. It depends quite a bit on how you play and on how your play is perceived by your opponents.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not saying this to be snarky but if your UTG raise in *6-max* alerts your opponents to your having AA, there is something wrong with your game.

Anyway this is limit so even if they are 80% sure you have AA, the knowledge is not really that valuable to them.

[Gone Forever]

[ QUOTE ]

If we are, how does raising utg give away you have aces?


[/ QUOTE ]

Most good players wouldn't be raising hands like A2xx or A3xx UTG because they know they want people in the pot behind them and don't want to push them out by raising first off.

Seeing as how hands with A2 and A3 are the biggest portion of pre-flop raising hands you can start to narrow down what an UTG player is raising with.

What other types of hands get raised preflop? AAXX, LLLL, HHHH. Maybe the occasional KKXX.

LLLL, & HHHH are pretty much in the same boat as A2 & A3 where you want a lot of people in the pot when you make your hand.

AAXX & KKXX don't want a lot of opponents because they're already made hands. You want to protect your edge.

Of the remaining hands, which one is more likely to be raised UTG?