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#51
12-01-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you can't be bluffing if no better hand ever folds which is most definitely the case here. just because a limited number of worse hands calls doesn't mean it's not for value. [/ QUOTE ] and just because no better hand every folds doesn't make it NOT a bluff. IE: you shoved on the river with air putting villain on small pocket pair.. He's a donk and called you. That'd be a bluff even though donk was never folding any part of his range that got there on the river, say, on a KKKAQ board. [/ QUOTE ] a small pair beats air on that board. you're hoping to fold out better. 
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#52
12-02-2007, 02:28 AM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you can't be bluffing if no better hand ever folds which is most definitely the case here. just because a limited number of worse hands calls doesn't mean it's not for value. [/ QUOTE ] and just because no better hand every folds doesn't make it NOT a bluff. IE: you shoved on the river with air putting villain on small pocket pair.. He's a donk and called you. That'd be a bluff even though donk was never folding any part of his range that got there on the river, say, on a KKKAQ board. [/ QUOTE ] a small pair beats air on that board. you're hoping to fold out better. [/ QUOTE ] you defined bluff as folding better hands, so I gave you an example that a bluff never folds a better hand.
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#53
12-02-2007, 02:31 AM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you can't be bluffing if no better hand ever folds which is most definitely the case here. just because a limited number of worse hands calls doesn't mean it's not for value. [/ QUOTE ] and just because no better hand every folds doesn't make it NOT a bluff. IE: you shoved on the river with air putting villain on small pocket pair.. He's a donk and called you. That'd be a bluff even though donk was never folding any part of his range that got there on the river, say, on a KKKAQ board. [/ QUOTE ] a small pair beats air on that board. you're hoping to fold out better. [/ QUOTE ] you defined bluff as folding better hands, so I gave you an example that a bluff never folds a better hand. [/ QUOTE ] no you didn't. you gave me an example of trying to bluff the wrong opponent. Surely the vast majority of people you face will fold the small pair there.
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#54
12-02-2007, 02:34 AM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
regardless of villain's action, hero is making a bluff.
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#55
12-02-2007, 02:48 AM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
[ QUOTE ]
I think the real question in this hand is the river. I called the turn, another 9 hit the river, and you shoved. I think this is a fairly easy c/f against not just me, but anybody with a brain really. What do you expect to get value from? I dunno, with my hand the turn was exactly a call, but I did put you squarely on JJ without much thought. I/anybody could have soo many boats though on that river, given my line. Like I think it's fair to say I could have every possibly boat combo on that river. A shove gets value from one hand (exactly my hand, like exactly) if the villain is dumb (but I ain't dumb yo). <font color="white">I had 76cc if you haven't guessed already.</font> [/ QUOTE ] How much did he bet on turn that would allow him to c/fold river? I just don't see what he could bet that would not commit him to river no matter what. To say river is an easy c/fold is kinda silly. c/call yes, but he can never fold river if he bets turn.
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#56
12-02-2007, 02:55 AM
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Re: need a plan vs a 2+2er
ya, that's what I said, your hand is a bluff 100%. Your only hoping to fold out better.
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