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Old 10-01-2007, 09:16 AM
brian64 brian64 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 67
Default Plo8 flop low set from BB

I was in the big blind and flopped a low set. Villain 1 is loose. Villain 2 is a ROCK, but will play marginal hands with 3 wheel cards (e.g. 245Q).

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.02 BB (7 handed)

CO ($3)
Button :#A500AF(Villain1)/ ($3.04)
SB :#A500AF(Villain2)/ ($1.36)
Hero ($3.05)
UTG ($2.33)
MP1 ($1.17)
MP2 ($2.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.02.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, Button :#A500AF(Villain1)/ calls $0.02, SB :#A500AF(Villain2)/ completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.08) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Villain2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.08</font>, CO folds, Villain1 calls $0.08, Villain2 calls $0.08.

Turn: ($0.32) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Villain2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.32</font>, Villain1 calls $0.32, Villain2 calls $0.32.

River: ($1.28) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain2 bets $0.94 (All-In)</font>, Hero??

Comments on flop/turn/river please
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:44 AM
franknagaijr franknagaijr is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wasting time on facebook
Posts: 618
Default Re: Plo8 flop low set from BB

That turn card was really awful for you, but may have helped either villain. I think slowing down on the turn is appropriate. I honestly don't know if you should check-call or check fold the turn here. The flop bet was okay.

As played, I think the river is a crying call. The obv monster you don't want to see is 34 or a better set, but there are still plenty of other possible hands (A3xx etc) where you've got a decent shot at half the pot.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:29 PM
ThE_rEaL_gUnIt ThE_rEaL_gUnIt is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: balla status
Posts: 61
Default Re: Plo8 flop low set from BB

huh? the turn wasnt THAT bad id much rather not see the ace queen ten or nine, the turn wasnt bad at all it was an action turn (for low chasers or a wrap draw, a34x), where in fact you SHOULD ram the turn which he did, you played this hand good and i hate to say it but its a call on the river too. you cant just fold and give up here on the river even if he has the a34 or even 34. even if you think your beat in pl8 you cant just let your boys (bets that you fired on previous streets) sit out in the pot and abandon them....def river call even though pretty awful river for you, 1.)i think the way he played the hand (esp the flop) its tough to put him on a 34 2.)if you fold river you are telling the table fire into me next time your in a hand with me bc i will fold to scare cards 3.)mucking hands isnt THAT bad it shows to the table that you are action, you will call and defend your hand, and also maybe next time someone is in a hand and you will have it and get paid off because they have you on a broader range of hands/know that you will give them action.....(plus your getting over 2-1 to call river)
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:29 AM
brian64 brian64 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 67
Default Re: Plo8 flop low set from BB

After the turn I didn't want to give a free card to someone drawing for the low. I thought there was a good chance that one of the villains might have a higher set (especially jacks) given that they both called but didn't raise on the flop/turn. Even if I call on the river I could be raised by Villain 1. I folded, so we'll never know.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:15 AM
RobNottsUk RobNottsUk is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 359
Default Re: Plo8 flop low set from BB

I've pondered this one, and having had top set and finding that marginal, also frequently have nut full on turn outdrawn, I'm really questioning the value of your set on the flop. This is partly due to the huge implied odds created by Villain1's loose play.

See in a way, your 5's are 'blockers' to the wheel str8, but now that's unblocked. Yes it's a mostly Hi board, but what cards do you actually want to see on the turn?

4 3's - Very good, give you str8 draw + 2nd Nut Lo draw improvers to defend your hand.

1 5 - Will you get paid if you hit that?

4 A's - 2nd Nut Lo draw, but put 3 to broadway str8 and gutshot wheel str8 possibilities.

6 2's or 4's - Put a Lo draw on board, and wheel str8

12 6's, 7's or 8's - Put middle str8 on board with known loose player, as well as making A2/A3 Lo draw

Now Hi cards

6 K's or J's - Either scary and tough to get paid, or make invisible outdraw easy on river

12 Q's..9's - Put 3 b'way str8

So you likely have best hand right now, but you're not going to know where you are on the river unless you catch a '3', '5' or an 'A'; and avoid 'bust' cards.

Can we get value from bottom set? Well looking at Villain2's short stack, the problem is that you'ld like to set him All In on the turn, and not have a river decision.

Therefore, if Villain1 behind you would bet any kind of a hand, if you check, I'd like to see what Villain2 does in response. If it's a check/raise, I'll put him on a higher set, or a big wrap, or a hand that's 2nd best now with lots of ways to improve and be done with the hand, feebly avoiding losses later in the hand.

If Villain1 bets, Villain2 just calls, now you can re-pot and get most of Villain2's money in before the river.

If there's no action on the flop, Villain2 may lead out on the turn anyway on back of draws, depending on the card you can raise, fold or call.

As is, I find it hard to see how Villain2 can call with just the low rundown, or A3 b'door Lo draw. I think the Nut Lo was most likely made, with some Hi hand like a pair.

Due to Villain1 being a calling station, Villain2 is benefitting from great implied odds, making it very hard to extract value from your hand on the flop. This means with, lots of backdoor possibilities, Villain2 can call with very many hands, that would be folded against 1 TAG player.
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