200nl: I flop goot in 3 way 3 bet pot.

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
So, why wait when you can push the flop and even gain some FE this way,

[/ QUOTE ]bettor has $68 left and BB would be betting a AsKs type hand here so what are we worried about? The money is getting in. Just about the only mistake you can make in this hand is getting rid of a hand that bb would otherwise call had you not pushed.

[Mike Kelley]

[ QUOTE ]
There are some scenarios where I'd want an overpair out of course, specifically if UTG had AsKs or some other higher flush draw w/ no pr. Then I would be screwed.

But I'm basically looking for confirmation that the theory behind the hand is correct, or someone who can tell me why its wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

After thinking about it, You aren't going to get rid of AsKs no matter what you do anyway, that hand would have to just be considered a cooler. You are probably right this is probably the optimal way to play this. AsXs doesn't have any business in a 3bet pot right? But neither does QsTs so whatevers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Here's what pokerstove looks like when I try something tricky like this, followed by BB typing in the chat box he was gonna fold if pushed.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

814,227,876 games 1.939 secs 419,921,545 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.968% 23.70% 00.27% 192940548 2214845.50 { QsTs }
Hand 1: 37.316% 36.41% 00.90% 296475816 7357855.00 { KK, JJ-TT, AsKs, AJs, As9s, As8s, AJo }
Hand 2: 38.716% 37.77% 00.95% 307520658 7718153.50 { KK, JJ-TT, 77 }

[jetsetboy]

I think I'm pushing here because I don't mind at all if only UTG+1 calls and I don't mind at all either if both calls. In the relatively rare cases where both fold u would win a nice pot. The only problem would be that nit calls with a set or AsXs and the donk folds but u don't really mind there is enough dead money and u aren't really deep.

Of course u can imagine scenarios where both calling >> one folding but u can also find scenarios where you are a dog to both or really ahead of the donk range (like 87% against 8s6s or 96% against 6s5s). The answer is so much dependant of the range u give to both of them and the part of this range they will call with that I don't think you can ever find a correct theorical answers. So think about your image and simply push !

I think if he has QQ+ we want him to fold because our equity will be good enough AND if you win UI because UTG has a trashy hands like a naked fd u can hope that nit tilt hard and that is always Ev+.

[Mr_Donktastic]

Results don't matter at all here but its just so LOL I gotta post it...

Flop: ($88) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $88.00</font>, Hero calls $88.00, BB folds

Turn: ($264) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG+1 bets all-in for $68.00</font>, Hero calls $68.00

River: ($400) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $400.00 ($3 Rake)

UTG+1 had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (Ace King high) and LOST (-$185.00)
Hero had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a pair of Tens) and WON (+$212.00)

[FireStorm]

Shove the flop.

[Proofrock]

[ QUOTE ]

Would you call to try to entice BB to come along with an overpair or would you try to push him out?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a moot point, because BB almost never checks that flop with QQ+, so I'd just shove to get it in vs. UTG+1.

[coordi]

I'd probly just call and entice BB. UTG is shoving any turn and you'll have odds to reach your outs. I don't think raising will push BB off anything you don't want around, but call might get him to put (almost) dead money in the pot.

[Johnes Benjamin]

admitedly i am drunk, but isn't this very clear? You have a drawing hand, if you hit you should be good (and if you're not, you won't fold out the hand that beats you anyway). Why would you not want as much money in the pot as possible (unless of course it is the exact situation it turned out to be, LOL).
I want people coming along here

[Mr_Donktastic]

[ QUOTE ]
admitedly i am drunk

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there any way to get this to appear at the beginning of all my posts? LOL.

I thought it was fairly clear when I played the hand I just wanted to see if others thought so. And not just this hand but the theory in general. My impression is that alot of people just jam the pot in spots like this w/out thinking about it much.