200nl: I flop goot in 3 way 3 bet pot.

[Mr_Donktastic]

BB is nit at 11/6/1.2. His 3 bet is probably something good, although I have been playing LAG.

UTG+1 is a donk. 38/8/4 over 100 hands. Hence the preflop call.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $144.75
BB: $192.00
UTG: $1,006.75
UTG+1: $185.00
MP1: $200.00
MP2: $200.55
CO: $218.80
Hero (BTN): $358.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $7.00</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls $7.00, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $29.00</font>, UTG+1 calls $22.00, Hero calls $22.00

Flop: ($88) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $88.00</font>, Hero ?

I'm obv not folding.

Would you call to try to entice BB to come along with an overpair or would you try to push him out?

[KurtSF]

BB is a nit, if he's playing past the flop he'll shove over you anyway.

I play this fast.

[Mr_Donktastic]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is a nit, if he's playing past the flop he'll shove over you anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think there is any difference between me calling the $88 or shoving for ~160 from the nits perspective?

Like if he has AA would he ever shove over my call but fold to a push? Or does it make no difference?

And if he has AA do we want him in the pot?

[Mike Kelley]

I play it fast if he hangs around fine. I'm not in the habit of trying to keep people in hands when I has draws.

[Mr_Donktastic]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not in the habit of trying to keep people in hands when I has draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not?

Take this for example...obviously a "best case" scenario but it makes the point:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

48,762 games 0.005 secs 9,752,400 games/sec

Board: Th Js 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.936% 46.94% 00.00% 22887 0.00 { QsTs }
Hand 1: 15.079% 15.08% 00.00% 7353 0.00 { AJo }
Hand 2: 37.984% 37.98% 00.00% 18522 0.00 { KK }

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

8,910 games 0.016 secs 556,875 games/sec

Board: Th Js 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.741% 50.74% 00.00% 4521 0.00 { QsTs }
Hand 1: 49.259% 49.26% 00.00% 4389 0.00 { AJo }


In the first example I have 47% equity but am putting in 33% of the money.

In the second example I have 51% equity but am putting in 50% of the money.

Which would you rather have?

[Mr_Donktastic]

There are some scenarios where I'd want an overpair out of course, specifically if UTG had AsKs or some other higher flush draw w/ no pr. Then I would be screwed.

But I'm basically looking for confirmation that the theory behind the hand is correct, or someone who can tell me why its wrong.

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
Which would you rather have?

[/ QUOTE ] Obviously a 3 way pot because the profit point in 3 way pots is at 33% so you have a +14% over the other two players thus getting the way best of it. HU you have &lt;+1% equity.

Given stacks it's clear that calling is best, but if UTG+1s stack was deeper($300+) I'd push.

edit: the reason calling is better is that 1)you get BB to come along sometimes, 2)you're going to have odds to chase your draw on the turn because the stacks on the turn will be &lt; a psb, and 3) you have no FE.

[Mr_Donktastic]

I agree that pushing would be mandatory if UTG had a bigger stack because of FE and the fact that I would be screwed on a lot of turns.

[SammyG-SD]

I like to push with the nut flush draw with stacks like these, because I have found worse flush draws will call thinking you are protecting. In this situation I would call as stated above.

[AlexB182]

I'd push here because on the flop, with 2nd pair, FD + remote backdoor straight draw chances are good you are a fav right now and you get the money in having the best of it more often than not. If you just call here and turn sucks like Ah or something, villain will push anyway and you have to call in def a worse spot. So, why wait when you can push the flop and even gain some FE this way, in case you're behind or dominated by a bigger draw, say Asxs...