Which Groups *DO NOT* Deserve a Seat on the PPA Board?

[BluffTHIS!]

D$D,

I replied very substantively to your previous post, while you give yet another long diatribe that did not respond substantively to mine. And this has nothing to do with 2p2 of myself or any other particular person who might or might not be a prospective board member (I def am not interested). So there's no "middle child" thing going on. Either respond to the points I made or just keep ignoring them and spinning the spin. And if you do respond to those points, please be as concise as possible and skip all the irrelevancies, also known in debating circles as "proof by verbosity".

[MiltonFriedman]

Take a break before you burn out.

[Skallagrim]

What a long winded fight over relatively small matters.

I could care less who is on the PPA board, D$D is right on this one for the most part. If the PPA board were to be handpicked by you Bluffthis could you guarantee a better PPA? Of course not.

I am a member of the PPA because right now it is the only organization that even purports to be fighting for the cause: legal poker, especially legal online poker. It has only been in existence one year, and I am willing to allow it growing pains - I agree its performance so far has been less than spectacular.

At the moment, though, it appears to be moving in the right direction. So I will continue to support it as long as it is moving in the right direction and I have no better alternative.

Until and unless I see proof that this "unrepresentative" board is actively working against poker player's interests, I am not gonna care who they are but rather what they do. My actual guess is that they are people who truly care about poker but are "learning on the job" what it takes to craft and run a truly effective special interest advocacy group.

Sometimes, Bluffthis. your criticism is helpful to bettering the PPA and the cause (your criticisms of their tactics do have much merit); sometimes, as with this continued harping on the members of the board, it amounts to nothing but a waste of otherwise useful energy.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Skallagrim

[RoundGuy]

I'm pretty sure 6 of us misread the poll.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Take a break before you burn out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I cetianly need a few hours sleep, but great advice.

D$D

BluffThis I wrote 4 "substabtitive replies" two I got an error message when trying to post and one got lost in the cut and pasting ediditng trying to keep the quotes right.

Yes you deserve a response beyond what I ranted.

But on a simple upset vs reward at this time, and the fact that if people with resources can't get accpeted by reasonible cooperation I'm not sure I want them on any board. Yes all bets are off when a person like TE gets nominated if he were to be blackballed. TE did the work showed his value, and was asked to take a position he wasn't looking for, well as far as I know. That to me is the model.

Beyond that your Trilaterial Commission, Skull&Bones, and "Free Mason!" theories of a sinister board just fall short. But hey I'm a compromiser, the middle child in me bit, I try to see all sides, then follow logic and a common sense path weighed with my own risk reward calculation.

So unless anyone's help is shown the door because of their industry associations the proxy fight IMPO is a dead issue at this time.

If you want the poker anology, "we've got the hand we're dealt." I like my cards and the flop shows me a board (pun intended) that keeps me in the pot. KY is the turn, it may or may not get me out of the pot. I will know if I had a winner when we see the river which is '08.

Before November '08 if you don't like your cards fold, you think your hand is EV+ raise the bet or at least call the bet to you. Don't like the game? Your welcome to start your own at any time.

December '08 is a new deal IMPO then the blinds at least double.

Clear and concise enough for you.



D$D

[Mason Malmuth]

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I could care less who is on the PPA board

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I think you have a lot to learn.

MM

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
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I could care less who is on the PPA board

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I think you have a lot to learn.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't that depend on who's on the board? Many boards are people by members with high profiles but no power. Others are boards with real business experience and provide a lot of strategic decisions.

Since we really don't know who is on the BOD of the PPA, it's hard to make a determination whether to care or not.

I am hopeful this new direction remains positive. We need both the PPA and 2+2 in this fight. Having them at odds doesn't do us any good at all.

[Tuff_Fish]

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I have discussed many times the composition of the PPA board and why I feel it is in drastic need of being revamped in order to give it a broad range of relevant and competent expertise that it needs to have the best chance of success in general, and also to be assured of pursuing all of the broader range of goals that most rank and file members have, as opposed to primarily focusing on benefiting the business models of specific concerns.



[/ QUOTE ]

IMPO your entire question is not only out of line it is based on a false premise.

Do the current board members deserve to be there?

Well let’s see? They stood up when asked to join. I don't know how much seed money they were required to personally contribute or "bring to the table" but that is usually the buy-in to be dealt a hand at a board room table like this.

Your premise is in effect an attempted proxy fight. You think the board sucks. I get that.

But what do you usually need in a proxy fight to win?

You have to show that the current board and management are unfit and its actions have hurt the organization.

Other than expressing your dislike of the current board, or demanding certain people be replacing by your own personal slate or possibly one chosen in this forum, what exactly are you getting at?

You have yet to show any harm to the poker world done by the PPA to date. You might have a mismanagement claim, which I might have supported before the board made the changes it has recently. We've got a new HQ location, a new Ex. Dir., even a new board member from "our" ranks. The PPA's KY participation is under serious discussion based on a cost vs. reward basis. Efforts are already under way with the e-mail TE posted to get an initial gauge of interest and I imagine see how good the e-mail list is. TE says the PPA is going to address the new IRS reg. Efforts are well underway to have a meaningful marking of the Anniversary of the UIGEA. I'm told the member questionnaire John promised to send out to the members is out or on it's way. John came here and posted. He's answered questions, e-mails, and had a meeting with me. I don't know and didn't ask how many others he's met with. Let alone the thousands things the PPA is doing that I know nothing about. These are all positives aren't they?

Where is the damage? What would your dream board do differently or what would you have them do differently, that is much different than is currently underway?

You act like there was a secret conspiracy to keep certain poker interests off the board. Do you have any proof of this? You act like the interests of certain aspects of the poker industry are being harmed by the PPA; can you point to specific actions?

As I posted once before, sometime around the age of four I pretty much gave up on the idea that I was ever going to get everything I wanted all of the time. Hell you know I've posted that I'm a lifelong Republican. I volunteered over 250 hours in 16 weeks in a Presidential campaign. I knew I'd been doing a lot, but it was my wife who told me how many hours I'd donated. Yes that's about a year of 40 hour work weeks in less than a quarter of a year. I’ve done a lot of work since then that was below my going rate. Even the Federal job I reluctantly accepted was taken at a pay cut to what I’d been making before taking it. Am I totally happy with everything the party does all the time?

What the hell am I doing as a lifelong Republican? Am I off to KY to do everything I can to try and save a fellow Republican? No I want to burry the SOB so deep they will need part of the Rockies to fill the hole! Yeah I think the PPA can mobilize the effort to make a mark on National politics in KY for poker. At this point in my life if I could afford to go down their on my own dime, I’d already be there! 3 kids, one in College will cause you to loose a little of your freedoms. Perhaps if I hadn’t given so much to the GOP and wasn’t getting to the point where the AARP sends you that nasty birthday card on your 50th I’d go anyway. Maybe if I was a better poker player I could afford to go. Hey anyone want to stake me??? John Pappas are you reading this? I bet it would be a positive ROI and likely return your staking in the form of new member donations….

I'd say this to you. Can you show me proof that there were people willing to step up and join the effort in a meaningful way when the PPA was formed but were denied a seat at the table? No I don't mean that they might not have had their butts kissed enough or given enough control to bother getting involved, I mean being told NO.

Can you show me other than through past mismanagement where the interests of any portion of the poker world was disserved or one portion given special favor over the competing interest of another?

You want to wage a proxy fight, let’s get it all out in the open. What is your claim to the "throne" why do you or what ever interest you represent or think isn't represented should be given control now? While you are at it tell me what they'd do differently. Give me a compelling list of reasons. I'm either a reasonable person or you might suggest one that is easily persuaded. Give it your best shot.

So far the current board has my vote, but I haven't signed my ballot just yet nor sent it in. My vote is up for grabs, convince me!


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

Said better than I could have.

Tuff

[Skallagrim]

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I could care less who is on the PPA board

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I think you have a lot to learn.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Then enlighten me oh wise one, because I also do not care who is on the board of the NRA, the Reason Foundation, NORML, Moveon.org, or any other advocacy group who I support when their position is the same as mine.

Skallagrim

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could care less who is on the PPA board

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a lot to learn.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Then enlighten me oh wise one, becasue I also do not care who is on the board of the NRA, the Reason Foundation, NORML, Moveon.org, or any other advocacy group who I support when their position is the same as mine.

Skallagrim

[/ QUOTE ]


Skall,

If you would actually read what I wrote earlier you could get enlightened. But here's the cliff notes:

1) Conflicted interests
2) Which lead to errors of ommission as to the broader range of goals most of us have
3) Lack of broad enough relevant expertise
4) Added to managerial incompetence of the past until Mr. Pappas' appointment (and which continues as to judicial issues)
4) Along with ongoing problems in transparency



Now let's examine the current results of the poll. The clear sentiment is that sites that left the market and *especially* affiliate farms are the very least of deserving seats on the board. Yet 4 members associated with CP mag, two of whom have large affiliate farm interests, including with the prime site that left the US market, i.e. party poker, effectively control the board *primarily to their own benefit rather than that of the larger membership*. Granted though that there own narrow goal of promoting the business model of certain online sites coincides with *ONE* of our larger list of goals.

Wait you say. The Engineer will soon be joining! Which when his vote is added to those of the chairman and the reps of the sites still in the US market *could* overrule the CP/Party Poker/Affiliate Farm block. Right? Wrong! Look on the PPA website and you will see that they have added another person, one Mary Magazine, an attorney *without* relevant legal experience (unless you think being a traffic court judge is), whose vote will offset that of the Engineer. Now guess whose friend she is, and thus which group she will vote with should there ever be a divergence of views on the board. Here's a clue: think poker cruises.