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  #31  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:08 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

No, because the threads sometimes go somewhere interesting. And this isn't one of yours, anyhow. I avoid responding to your proselytism.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:09 PM
kurto kurto is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

but you're still missing why its not that interesting... that is, since the Bible has hundreds (or is it thousands) of versions, it has had books and verses added and taken away throughout time, it has different translations, etc. The fact that one particular verse is in the middle doesn't mean much because there are a multitude of versions which would have different verses in the center.

You can't put significance on that verse because its in the center of ONE version of the Bible when a different verse would be the middle verse in different versions.

On a related note- I feel pretty confident that there are 100s if not thousands of lines in that Bible that, were they the middle verse, you would find it significant. Which shows the more relevent information is your readiness to find significance and meaning in rathar unextraordinary things.

If one looked at a composite of your posts, one might easily conclude that you find interesting ANYTHING you read that you can interpret to reinforce your beliefs. It is also clear that you don't really analyze whether what you're posting is significant or logical... you just get excited by the idea that it may possibly support your beliefs. But you really give no critical analysis to anything you read so long as it suggests something Holy.

Can you see this?
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:38 PM
luckyme luckyme is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

[ QUOTE ]
If one looked at a composite of your posts, one might easily conclude that you find interesting ANYTHING you read that you can interpret to reinforce your beliefs. It is also clear that you don't really analyze whether what you're posting is significant or logical... you just get excited by the idea that it may possibly support your beliefs. But you really give no critical analysis to anything you read so long as it suggests something Holy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, don't waste any compilation, they are an excellent source for examples of selection biases of various types unless you find they're too extreme to be credible for a class. iow, would a class say, "hey, nobody is that blatant about it." and not get the value out of them.

luckyme
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:08 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

Psalm 118:8 (New American Standard Bible)

8It is (A)better to take refuge in the LORD
Than to trust in man.


Psalm 118:8 (New International Version)
8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD
than to trust in man.

Psalm 118:8 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

8It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 118:8 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)

8 It is better to take refuge in the Lord
than to trust in people.

Psalm 118:8 (King James Version)

8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psalm 118:8 (English Standard Version)
English Standard Version (ESV)

8(A) It is better to take refuge in the LORD
(B) than to trust in man.

Psalm 118:8 (Contemporary English Version)

8It is better to trust the LORD

for protection

than to trust anyone else,

Psalm 118:8 (New King James Version)

8 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 118:8 (New Century Version)
New Century Version (NCV)

8 It is better to trust the Lord
than to trust people.

Psalm 118:8 (21st Century King James Version)
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
Copyright © 1994 by Deuel Enterprises, Inc.



8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 118:8 (American Standard Version)

8 It is better to take refuge in Jehovah Than to put confidence in man.

Psalm 118:8 (Young's Literal Translation)

8Better to take refuge in Jehovah than to trust in man,

Psalm 118:8 (Darby Translation)
Darby Translation (DARBY)
Public Domain

8It is better to trust in Jehovah than to put confidence in man;

Psalm 118:8 (New Life Version)
New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
Psalm 118:8 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003 by Holman Bible Publishers, Nashville Tennessee. All rights reserved.


8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD
than to trust in man. (A)



8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to trust in man.

Psalm 118:8 (New International Reader's Version)

8 It is better to go to the Lord for safety
than to trust in mere men.
Psalm 118:8 (New International Version - UK)
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



8It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.

An excerpt from http://everystudent.com/features/bible.h...WID=3466921512:

Has the Bible Changed and Been Corrupted Over Time?

Some people have the idea that the New Testament has been translated "so many times" that it has become corrupted through stages of translating. If the translations were being made from other translations, they would have a case. But translations are actually made directly from original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic source texts based on thousands of ancient manuscripts.

For instance, we know the New Testament we have today is true to its original form because:
1. We have such a huge number of manuscript copies--over 24,000.
2. Those copies agree with each other, word for word, 99.5% of the time.
3. The dates of these manuscripts are very close to the dates of their originals (see link at end of this section).

When one compares the text of one manuscript with another, the match is amazing. Sometimes the spelling may vary, or words may be transposed, but that is of little consequence. Concerning word order, Bruce M. Metzger, professor emeritus at Princeton Theological Seminary, explains: "It makes a whale of a difference in English if you say, 'Dog bites man' or 'Man bites dog'--sequence matters in English. But in Greek it doesn't. One word functions as the subject of the sentence regardless of where it stands in the sequence."5

Dr. Ravi Zacharias, a visiting professor at Oxford University, also comments: "In real terms, the New Testament is easily the best attested ancient writing in terms of the sheer number of documents, the time span between the events and the documents, and the variety of documents available to sustain or contradict it. There is nothing in ancient manuscript evidence to match such textual availability and integrity."6

The New Testament is humanity's most reliable ancient document. Its textual integrity is more certain than that of Plato's writings or Homer's Iliad. For a comparison of the New Testament to other ancient writings, click here.

The Old Testament has also been remarkably well preserved. Our modern translations are confirmed by a huge number of ancient manuscripts in both Hebrew and Greek, including the mid-20th century discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. These scrolls hold the oldest existing fragments of almost all of the Old Testament books, dating from 150 B.C. The similarity of the Dead Sea manuscripts to hand copies made even 1,000 years later is proof of the care the ancient Hebrew scribes took in copying their scriptures.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #35  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:35 PM
kurto kurto is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

Ummm you are simply posting the same verse over and over. The question is NOT what is Psalm 118:8... the question is what verse is the 'middle' of the Bible. You aren't showing that they are the middle verse. Nor is showing how 'middle verse is defined.' Is it page number? Is it number of words before and after?

Are you including versions of the Bible that include added text?

Your posting doesn't indicate anything about "the middle verse."


REGARDING the changes in the Bible - try this recent book by Biblical Scholar Bart Ehrman:

Misquoting Jesus
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:41 PM
FortunaMaximus FortunaMaximus is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

[ QUOTE ]
The New Testament is humanity's most reliable ancient document. Its textual integrity is more certain than that of Plato's writings or Homer's Iliad. For a comparison of the New Testament to other ancient writings, click here.

The Old Testament has also been remarkably well preserved. Our modern translations are confirmed by a huge number of ancient manuscripts in both Hebrew and Greek, including the mid-20th century discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. These scrolls hold the oldest existing fragments of almost all of the Old Testament books, dating from 150 B.C. The similarity of the Dead Sea manuscripts to hand copies made even 1,000 years later is proof of the care the ancient Hebrew scribes took in copying their scriptures.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all well and good, but just because something was translated with consistency does not make it more valid than logical statements.

Should the lessons of Plato and Homer be given less weight simply because they may not have been as successfully translated word for word?

Without the Rosetta stone and linguists working on incomplete information, hieroglyphs would still be pretty gibberish. I do not think when a complete translation of lost languages and possibly undiscovered manuscripts are made you should suddenly find an emergence of new/old religions.

It's good that ancient works are preserved through translation, but to lean too heavily on the knowledge that is centuries or millennia old to give a logical explanation of why things are the way they are?

How did a 21 month old thread get bumped anyway? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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  #37  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:42 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

Your question was answered and now you're raising a different argument.
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  #38  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:47 PM
kurto kurto is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

btw, Splendour... the link you provided proves what I said earlier... you suffer from massive confirmation bias. You never seem to look critically at anything you post because you WANT to believe it.

This link "An excerpt from http://everystudent.com/features/bib...ID=3466921512:
1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196292867&sr=1-1" is really poor.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. The Bible is not a book of fables. Unlike other spiritual books, it does not demand blind faith. Multiple categories of evidence support the historical accuracy of the Bible as well as its claim to divine authorship.



[/ QUOTE ]

First off, many Christian Biblical Scholars contend that much of the Bible is in fact fables and not to be taken literally. So not even all Christians, I'm not sure even the MAJORITY of Christians believe much of it isn't fables.

Furthermore...
[ QUOTE ]
Ancient history supports the Bible's accuracy as a historical record.


[/ QUOTE ] Some of it does. But most of the 'magical parts' and nearly everything about Jesus is NOT supported. For instance, history directly contradicts in massive amounts of evidence that the Earth is only a few thousand years old... or that the entire earth was flooded... or that the jews had a mass exodus from Egypt, etc.

This is fallacious. Yet you link to it as proof.... because you want to believe it. Have you verified this with any critical research? I sincerely doubt it.

[ QUOTE ]
The Gospels provide multiple reliable accounts of Jesus' life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... First off, Many Biblical Scholars believe that the 3 later gospels were BASED on the first Gospel. That is... they are not independent accounts, they are merely retellings. The later 3 relied on the first Gospel. Second... how are they reliable? Outside of the Bible, there is little to no corroborative evidence. Period.

Once again... you take it for granted that this is correct. Yet even within the Christian Academic community, Biblical scholars believe that the Gospels are NOT separate accounts. (see the book link I posted for you earlier)

[ QUOTE ]
Archaeology backs up the Biblical account.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again... it does not. It backs up things like... certain cities may have existed. But it does not back up much of it.

Because the Bible references real cities and such is not proof of anything. Anymore then the fact that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom had Nazis in it... who were real, therefore Indiana Jones was real and he really found the Ark of the Covenant.

[ QUOTE ]
Textual scholarship confirms that the books of the Bible have not changed since they were first written.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is the worst of all. There are plenty of books documenting the changes in the Bible. I posted one for you.
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  #39  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:50 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

quote: It's good that ancient works are preserved through translation, but to lean too heavily on the knowledge that is centuries or millennia old to give a logical explanation of why things are the way they are?


Something being old doesn't negate it. If anything it underpins things. God is eternal so his texts should be old. Just because the truths in the book seem "old fashioned" is deceiving. They are tried and true and there's a lot of insight into the character of man.
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:00 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: family issue, and personal philosophy

What is your problem Kurto? I made my original post for Ben in answer to his post not for you to argue over. Its not an argument. Its a fact. Its Psalm 118:8 in all bible versions.

I'm not arguing every contrary opinion you have. Start a post if you want input from the forum on every aspect of the bible, but I doubt I'll be answering it.
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