top pair + gutter in blind battle

Irishman07 · #1 08-22-2007, 03:36 PM

Villain is 21/15/1.7 over 600 hands or so. We played this hand on another table about 20 minutes ago:

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($394)
SB ($176.80)
Hero ($400)
UTG ($621)
MP ($305.30)
CO ($398)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises to $14, Button calls $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $58, CO calls $44, Button folds.

Flop: ($132) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $90, CO raises to $340 (All-In), Hero calls $250.

Turn: ($812) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)
.

River: ($812) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $812

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
CO has 8d 8c (straight, ten high).
Outcome: CO wins $812. 

Here's the current hand. Whats your plan for the flop, call or raise and why? Does the previous hand factor in your decision at all? If you raise what do you do to a reraise/shove?

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($404)
Hero ($461.50)
UTG ($451.60)
MP ($421.60)
CO ($1069.40)
Button ($329.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, SB raises to $14, Hero calls $10.

Flop: ($28) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero...

Ishfay · #2 08-22-2007, 03:45 PM

I wouldn't raise unless I was ok with getting it in on the flop. I really hate raising and folding here. I'd call and go from there which would probably include calling the turn as well.

First hand doesn't have a whole lot influence on my thoughts.

Albert Moulton · #3 08-22-2007, 03:47 PM

The SPR is 13.9. You have position. This is a good spot to steal both his cb and his 2nd barrel.

So, call the cb. Raise the 2nd barrel on the turn enough to leave a psb on the river. Push any river. This line works best if you occasionally float on a draw-heavy board with a set or 2-pair when you have position. If he pushes over your raise on the turn, however, then fold.

On the other hand, you might raise the flop to $72 and give up if he pushes or keeps firing on the turn for a psb or more. This line might work better if that's how he would expect you to play a set or 2-pair or straight on this draw-heavy board.

I think I like the first line of call the cb, raise the 2nd barrel, push the river best - especially if a low spade hits on the turn or river and he suspects you play big with premium hands (like KK in the first example).

Ishfay · #4 08-22-2007, 03:50 PM

"The SPR is 13.9."

what is this?

David1234 · #5 08-22-2007, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"The SPR is 13.9."

what is this?

[/ QUOTE ]
stack to pot ratio

David1234 · #6 08-22-2007, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The SPR is 13.9. You have position. This is a good spot to steal both his cb and his 2nd barrel.

So, call the cb. Raise the 2nd barrel on the turn enough to leave a psb on the river. Push any river. This line works best if you occasionally float on a draw-heavy board with a set or 2-pair when you have position. If he pushes over your raise on the turn, however, then fold.

On the other hand, you might raise the flop to $72 and give up if he pushes or keeps firing on the turn for a psb or more. This line might work better if that's how he would expect you to play a set or 2-pair or straight on this draw-heavy board.

I think I like the first line of call the cb, raise the 2nd barrel, push the river best - especially if a low spade hits on the turn or river and he suspects you play big with premium hands (like KK in the first example).

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you want to play this hand so aggressively?

Albert Moulton · #7 08-22-2007, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The SPR is 13.9. You have position. This is a good spot to steal both his cb and his 2nd barrel.

So, call the cb. Raise the 2nd barrel on the turn enough to leave a psb on the river. Push any river. This line works best if you occasionally float on a draw-heavy board with a set or 2-pair when you have position. If he pushes over your raise on the turn, however, then fold.

On the other hand, you might raise the flop to $72 and give up if he pushes or keeps firing on the turn for a psb or more. This line might work better if that's how he would expect you to play a set or 2-pair or straight on this draw-heavy board.

I think I like the first line of call the cb, raise the 2nd barrel, push the river best - especially if a low spade hits on the turn or river and he suspects you play big with premium hands (like KK in the first example).

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you want to play this hand so aggressively?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a good spot to steal villain's cb and 2nd barrel. I think he 2nd barrels if you call the cb almost every time. You can then push him off if (1) he has missed over cards, or (2) he believes you have a flush or a straight or a set or 2-pair. The pot is just about the right size to allow you to float, then raise, and still have a big river bet. He know that, and he won't like it. If it turns out that he does like it enough to push the turn or open push the river, then you can fold TPWK because its probably no good.

Basically, I think this is a good hand, board and position to steal because the original preflop raiser created a pot-size that will make his betting patterns difficult if we give him pause with a line that leads him to believe he's beaten. I don't think our hand, TPWK, makes much difference, but it is nice that we have outs if he just calls the turn raise to what might become trips or 2-pair or a straight (turning a river push bluff into a value bet).

I just think villain has a vulnerable position relative to stack sizes, and we can push him off both his cb and 2nd barrel often enough to make this profitable. Raising the flop might fold overcards, but fails to win a 2nd barrel bluff. Raising the flop on the draw-heavy board probably just makes overpairs push. But floating, then raising with a threat of another hammer bet on the river might just win the most, even when we're behind a hand like QQ or KJ.

Do you not think we have enough fold equity with this line vs villain's most likely hand range?