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#21
10-04-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
I think you misread the hand history. He flopped top set, there is no risk, you have the nuts... You can't play scared. You want him to call a flop bet with draws when you are offering him improper odds and will not likely stack him when he does get there. I.e. this example when sence checks turns.
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#22
10-04-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
[ QUOTE ]
I think you misread the hand history. He flopped top set, there is no risk, you have the nuts... You can't play scared. You want him to call a flop bet with draws when you are offering him improper odds and will not likely stack him when he does get there. I.e. this example when sence checks turns. [/ QUOTE ] No, I didn't misread the hand history. Currently, we have the nuts. 21% of our starting stack is out there right now. There's a flush draw on the board. How exactly does trying to extract maximum value from this hand (as if we are playing a cash game) aids us in cashing, as opposed to what we are risking? If the board didn't have two of a suit, then our risk is much lower, so we can try to extract more value. Early stages of an STT is not the time to try and extract extra value, with risk, as the equity added doesn't gain you as much as the risk.
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#25
10-04-2007, 09:30 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think you misread the hand history. He flopped top set, there is no risk, you have the nuts... You can't play scared. You want him to call a flop bet with draws when you are offering him improper odds and will not likely stack him when he does get there. I.e. this example when sence checks turns. [/ QUOTE ] No, I didn't misread the hand history. Currently, we have the nuts. 21% of our starting stack is out there right now. There's a flush draw on the board. How exactly does trying to extract maximum value from this hand (as if we are playing a cash game) aids us in cashing, as opposed to what we are risking? If the board didn't have two of a suit, then our risk is much lower, so we can try to extract more value. Early stages of an STT is not the time to try and extract extra value, with risk, as the equity added doesn't gain you as much as the risk. [/ QUOTE ] Then you should be folding PF and not risking anything to gain nothing. This is not far off from what you are saying.
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#26
10-04-2007, 09:51 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
i'm betting the turn and calling a push. flush draws are not as scary when you get to the flop heads up. i just hate to give a free card on the turn. plus you still have 10 outs if villian pushes and has a flush.
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#27
10-04-2007, 10:51 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
[ QUOTE ]
Then you should be folding PF and not risking anything to gain nothing. This is not far off from what you are saying. [/ QUOTE ] It's risk vs. reward. QQ is likely to pick up the pot right here, and if you are called you likely have the best hand. Folding QQ makes no sense preflop under the conditions given. Post flop the choice is 1. Do you push and take it down right here 90% of the time, double up 7% of the time, and bust 3% of the time 2. Try and extract number of chips, risking fold equity to gain 40% more to your stack. To me, the first couple hundred chips you gain give you far more value than the other 400. At the early stages you need to have enough chips to have fold equity. Doubling up doesn't come close to doubling your ability to cash. If you had QQ would you call an all in on the first hand of a STT if someone flipped up AK? Your ahead, you don't have any time invested, but if you have an advantage late in the late stages I doubt the 47% chance of busting on the first hand overcomes the 53% chance you double up.
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#28
10-04-2007, 11:00 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
Early double up doesn't mean a lot? Yeah, there's ICM and all, but it's still worth over twenty dollars. That is like, 8 sngs worth of profit if you are a GOOD player.
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#29
10-04-2007, 11:16 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
Bet call turn.
Shove river. He can have a flush on the turn, but letting him hit a free 9 outer with something stupid like 99c really sucks also he can shove worse hands on the turn like sets where river clubs will kill your action and even against a flush just yell PAIR THE BOARD. River people are stupid they will call here with two pairs and sets let them do it.
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#30
10-04-2007, 11:28 PM
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Re: 27$ - QQ makes a set early, flush possible on turn
[ QUOTE ]
lolz @ flop push, be real with yourself you guys. you dont have to be so constantly afraid of getting sucked out on, play some poker and deal with getting it in without the nuts, or laying down a big hand. as played turn can go either way i think, and there isnt much value in raising the river so flats fine. [/ QUOTE ] id raise the river as played probably [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
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