Random soccer discussion

[JaredL]

As discussed in ATF, I'm starting a random soccer discussion thread. Feel free to post anything you wish, so long as it isn't a "soccer sucks" or "no, soccer rulez" type post.

To kick things off, Here's an excellent Phil Ball article on the political nature of Spanish football. Those that like Spanish football but don't know a lot about Spain should definately read it as politics in Spain is largely influential.

For those not following, the Spanish national team continues to dissapoint. Recently they lost 3-2 to Northern Ireland and 2-0 to Switzerland. They are going to have to go on a huge run to qualify for Euro 2008.

On that note, I hope that Euro 2008 is televised other than pay-per-view. As we discussed during the World Cup, Euro 2008 tends to offer much better play than the WC because the worst team at the European Championship is probably better than 5-10 or so sides in the world cup and competititve with all except the best few teams.

Feel free to add questions or other things that don't belong in another thread (it would probably be better, for example, if Premiership discussion went in its thread).

[iron81]

Since moving into their new stadium the Chicago Fire have been absolutely dominant at home, winning something like 2/3rds of their matches with some ties. They have also captured the US Cup this year and they'll take a 2 seed into the MLS playoffs and they have owned 1 seed DC United Heads Up. Go Fire.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Question, when do you think US Soccer will adopt its Euro counterparts system? We already have MLS and USL, lets make this [censored] happen.

[iron81]

Do you mean like eliminating playoffs and having the regular season winner declared league winner? If so, never. If you mean a relegation system, not in the foreseeable future. The league isn't set up that way.

[ThaSaltCracka]

yes I mean all of that.

[KDawg]

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Do you mean like eliminating playoffs and having the regular season winner declared league winner? If so, never. If you mean a relegation system, not in the foreseeable future. The league isn't set up that way.

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I think that promotion/relegation will happen at some point, but we are probably looking at a good 15 years in teh future at the least. The lower leagues need to be developed better so that a relegated team wouldn't fall off the face of the earth.

As far as the playoffs go, they're here to stay. I don't see a problem with it, I just think that less teams should be in them. I do think though that the league so go to a one conference structure as I think that may improve the meaning of games and probably make for better play as the best teams will end up in teh playsoffs

[JaredL]

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Question, when do you think US Soccer will adopt its Euro counterparts system? We already have MLS and USL, lets make this [censored] happen.

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This touches on a deeper issue. The popularity of soccer is obviously fairly low in this country - both relative to its popularity in other countries and the popularity of other American sports. For this reason, the MLS has tried to go mainstream. This IMO is a mistake. The reason for that is that there are a lot of hardcore soccer fans such as myself and others here, who have been following football in other countries for some time. These fans are largely turned off by the changes that get made. So instead of having a small, rabid base of support, there aren't a lot of strong supporters (by which I mean people who would buy a directtv type package to see their team's games, travel to away games etc.). What's worse is that these changes didn't really do the job in terms of winning over the types of people who watch the world cup then don't give a [censored] for four years, especially those who wouldn't watch the world cup finals if the US didn't qualify (which given all the concacaf spots should now never happen).

Think of it like Metallica. When they made the black album (think enter sandman), they went from a band with a very strong cult following to a mainstream metal band. Thus, they lost a lot of their fans. However, they gained a hell of a lot more new fans in the process. This was due to the pop/rock culture being ready to accept their music. To take this metaphor ridiculously too far, the MLS is basically like Metallica after the all black album if they were then also rejected by mainstream music fans.

At this point I think that the MLS is having an identity crisis. Things like naming a team Real Salt Lake do nothing for anybody. To someone like me it makes it very obvious that they're trying too hard and not quite getting there which is worst case. (I've mentioned this before, but it's completely absurd that a team in the US, the original modern (monarchyless) republic, would have a sports team named Real X since Real is Spanish for royal, and noble titles are strictly prohibited in the US by our constitution) Moreoever, casual fans think these names are bizarre. So basically, I think the MLS needs to make a real (no pun intended) effort to appeal to actual soccer fans and try to build on that. If, for example, you lived in Columbus, Ohio and worked with someone that was a very rabid fan of the Crew (assuming this team still exists under this name), then you could very well be won over and start going to games, watching them on tv and giving a [censored] in general. If, however, there are very few major supporters then this is less likely happen and as a result the popularity of the league will not improve.

So that was a pretty long response, but my point is that I think things like promotion/relgation should be added to the league and would greatly help its popularity. I think this would increase the popularity of soccer across the country as well. For example, in Portland the Timbers have a very small but strong group of supporters despite not being very good. If they could even potentially get promoted there is a fair chance that someone with more money would buy the team or at least invest and interest would grow. If they actually made the top flight then their popularity would I think skyrocket as people in all of Oregon (I'm sure TSC can attest to this) would really like to have a professional team to cheer for that isn't the Blazers who are something of a shame. I'm sure the same would go in other cities.

Another benefit of this would be that if it went well it could potentially spread to other sports. I think baseball would benefit greatly from this system. That I currently live in Pittsburgh is part of the reason I think this.

[gusmahler]

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Another benefit of this would be that if it went well it could potentially spread to other sports. I think baseball would benefit greatly from this system. That I currently live in Pittsburgh is part of the reason I think this.

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MLB owners will never accept a situation where there team would lose that much revenue by being demoted to AAA. Plus, it would ruin the farm system.

[jstnrgrs]

I think one of the best things about soccer is the structure of its leagues. It is a shame that MLS seams to be basing its structure on other US sports (which I think would be improved with a soccer style promotion and relegation).

The one thing that the MLS does (or did, I don't know if they still do) that I like is to have 3 game series (I would prefer 2 games, points only, with a game 3 tiebreaker) instead of the european style 2 leg matches. The reason I prefer this is that I think it results in penalties less often. The penalty shootout is the worst thing about soccer.

[jstnrgrs]

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Another benefit of this would be that if it went well it could potentially spread to other sports. I think baseball would benefit greatly from this system. That I currently live in Pittsburgh is part of the reason I think this.

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MLB owners will never accept a situation where there team would lose that much revenue by being demoted to AAA. Plus, it would ruin the farm system.

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This is true, but baseball would be much more intereting if it were like soccer.