100NL: Routine overpair shove on drawy board

[QuadLaser]

Villain is routine 23/19/3

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $33.55
SB: $64.70
BB: $114.60
UTG: $82.50
Hero (CO): $108.45

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.50</font>, SB calls $3

Flop: ($8) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $7</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $29</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $104.95 and is All-In</font>, SB calls $32.20 and is All-In

Is this the right play vs this opponent? What about flat calling and jamming a safe turn?

Also, does JJ make any diff. vs AA in your play?

Lastly, if villain is deeper do we alter our play at all?

[AMT]

looks fine, i doubt my play would change a ton unless we had &gt;100bb.

[pineapple888]

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looks fine, i doubt my play would change a ton unless we had &gt;100bb.

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Yeah, I'd get less happy about it the closer we got to 100BB. In this spot though it's completely standard.

[QuadLaser]

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looks fine, i doubt my play would change a ton unless we had &gt;100bb.

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Yeah, I'd get less happy about it the closer we got to 100BB. In this spot though it's completely standard.

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You would be less happy, but still jam over his $29 raise? If you don't like jamming, do you call? Pretend he made this raise and we are both 100BB deep.

[yad]

yes, standard. would play the same with AA. This is also fine with 100BB against an opponent like you describe. 150bb+ I flatcall the flop raise though.

[QuadLaser]

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yes, standard. would play the same with AA. This is also fine with 100BB against an opponent like you describe. 150bb+ I flatcall the flop raise though.

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I have been doing this alot and routinely getting it all in on the flop. Once they raise to $29, they never fold to a push (or rarely). It's always some combo draw like pair and straight draw (say 75 or 76), or 2 pr/set. Since the best case seems to be a coin flip, and worst case we are drawing to two outs, perhaps we should change the doctrine of jamming as standard here? This opponent isn't dumb and wouldn't raise to $29 with A6 or A7 here. Whats the drawback to flat calling and getting it in on a safe turn? FWIW, I keep getting stacked on "drawy" flops when people flop 2pr/sets and in this case villain had 55 for a set. Of course his small stack made it less of a decision, but I am talking about the 100BB case.

[kash munni]

I like the play because we are beating such a wide range of hands that he could be reraising. I don't ever fold in that spot for 65bb player.

If you just calling on the flop is bad because a lot of turn cards will force you to make a tough decision. While you can lose a lot of value from pocket pairs lower than JJ.

If the guy had 100bb I would be more cautious. And would be read dependent. Most decent regulars realize that they wouldn't get paid off by many worse pocket pairs if they had like 99 and that such a big over-bet would lead to you folding the hands they beat and getting called by hands that are beating them. Which leads to either a higher pp, maybe 1010 or 99, 33-77, and some pair + strt draw combos such as 67 or even 2 pair. I would base my decision on my image and any tendancies I might of noticed. If I notice the player played a draw passive earlier I would lean towards folding and vice-versa.


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looks fine, i doubt my play would change a ton unless we had &gt;100bb.

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Yeah, I'd get less happy about it the closer we got to 100BB. In this spot though it's completely standard.

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You would be less happy, but still jam over his $29 raise? If you don't like jamming, do you call? Pretend he made this raise and we are both 100BB deep.

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[Alobar]

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yes, standard. would play the same with AA. This is also fine with 100BB against an opponent like you describe. 150bb+ I flatcall the flop raise though.

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I have been doing this alot and routinely getting it all in on the flop. Once they raise to $29, they never fold to a push (or rarely). It's always some combo draw like pair and straight draw (say 75 or 76), or 2 pr/set. Since the best case seems to be a coin flip, and worst case we are drawing to two outs, perhaps we should change the doctrine of jamming as standard here? This opponent isn't dumb and wouldn't raise to $29 with A6 or A7 here. Whats the drawback to flat calling and getting it in on a safe turn? FWIW, I keep getting stacked on "drawy" flops when people flop 2pr/sets and in this case villain had 55 for a set. Of course his small stack made it less of a decision, but I am talking about the 100BB case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats my thought on it as well. Maybe its just varience, but so far on these flops Im always getting stacked with my overpairs to 2prs and sets. Problem is, I dunno how else to play them, since I end up getting stacked on safe turns as well, and folding seems out of the question. So I just keep on getting stacked and just blame it on being coolered, when really I just think im playing it crappy.

[kash munni]

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yes, standard. would play the same with AA. This is also fine with 100BB against an opponent like you describe. 150bb+ I flatcall the flop raise though.

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Flat-calling is really tough since you are pretty much hoping for either a 10 , 9, 4, 5, or J every other card is going to force you into a tough spot which is not what you want when you have 150bb+

[kash munni]

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Thats my thought on it as well. Maybe its just varience, but so far on these flops Im always getting stacked with my overpairs to 2prs and sets. Problem is, I dunno how else to play them, since I end up getting stacked on safe turns as well, and folding seems out of the question. So I just keep on getting stacked and just blame it on being coolered, when really I just think im playing it crappy.

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You need to use what you have seen from villain. Anything such as how he played a draw? If he played some draw aggro lean towards calling. What if he just check called w/ a gutshot and flush draw? Well than lean towards folding. Have you been 3betting him all game or stealing pots from him? Lean towards calling. Have you not raised all session ? Lean towards folding. Has he just lost a big pot? Lean towards calling. I think too many people just get into a habbit of looking at the stats as their reads. Try playing some sessions without acehud, close some tables, and just take notes on players. Im not saying to quit 12 tabling just dont allow yourself to get lazy.