Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[Felix_Nietzsche]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071127/...l_palestinians
That nitwit Bush is pressing ahead with his dopey two state peace solution. This will fail like every other peace deal because:
1. The Arab leaders don't want peace.
2. The Arabs are lying sacks of crap.

At least Hamas in the Gaza is being honest by opposing this peace deal and calling for the destruction of Israel. Fatah is more sophisticated than Hamas because they lie pretending to want peace while taking every concession that Israel is foolish enough to offer.

The only treaty the Arabs have half-assed 'honored' was the Camp David accords. Egypt welched on part of the deal to recognize Israel. The only reason why Eqypt did not welch on the rest of the treaty was the USA agreed to pay an annual $1.3b bribe to Eqypt as long as they abide by the agreement.

In the 1993 Oslo accords, the Arabs welch on the deal by refusing to honor the terms while accepting the land-for-peace (the Gaza strip) that Israel gave. Hamas has rejected the Oslo accords while at the same time accepting the land that Israel gave up.... Again, I admire Hamas for their honesty as oppose to the lies from Fatah.

Land for peace has never worked with the Arabs, yet Bush is STUUU-PID enough to believe it will work this time...

My solution to the Israel-Arab peace process?
1. Israel invades Gaza and Arab controlled areas of the West Bank and annexes the land.
2. Take away the citizenship of all Arabs inside Israel.
3. Relocate all Arabs inside Israel and dump them on the borders of Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. Let their Arab brothers give them sanctuary.
4. Drink a beer for a job well done... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
5. Endure the occasional rocket attacks accross the borders but launch occasional cross border attacks to kill these scum.

[JayTee]

[ QUOTE ]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071127/...l_palestinians
That nitwit Bush is pressing ahead with his dopey two state peace solution. This will fail like every other peace deal because:
1. The Arab leaders don't want peace.
2. The Arabs are lying sacks of crap.

At least Hamas in the Gaza is being honest by opposing this peace deal and calling for the destruction of Israel. Fatah is more sophisticated than Hamas because they lie pretending to want peace while taking every concession that Israel is foolish enough to offer.

The only treaty the Arabs have half-assed 'honored' was the Camp David accords. Egypt welched on part of the deal to recognize Israel. The only reason why Eqypt did not welch on the rest of the treaty was the USA agreed to pay an annual $1.3b bribe to Eqypt as long as they abide by the agreement.

In the 1993 Oslo accords, the Arabs welch on the deal by refusing to honor the terms while accepting the land-for-peace (the Gaza strip) that Israel gave. Hamas has rejected the Oslo accords while at the same time accepting the land that Israel gave up.... Again, I admire Hamas for their honesty as oppose to the lies from Fatah.

Land for peace has never worked with the Arabs, yet Bush is STUUU-PID enough to believe it will work this time...

My solution to the Israel-Arab peace process?
1. Israel invades Gaza and Arab controlled areas of the West Bank and annexes the land.
2. Take away the citizenship of all Arabs inside Israel.
3. Relocate all Arabs inside Israel and dump them on the borders of Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. Let their Arab brothers give them sanctuary.
4. Drink a beer for a job well done... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
5. Endure the occasional rocket attacks accross the borders but launch occasional cross border attacks to kill these scum.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I think I have typically disagreed with you in the past (can't remember specifics). This is a fine solution to me. It doesn't involve the US. Let the mideast determine its outcome. If Israel wants to stay in existence I don't see any solution for them other than one of force. I don't care either way.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

An overwhelming military victory by one side is the "best" way to bring peace to this area. Sinced I'm biased against the Arab culture and especially their religion, a Jewish victory would be my choice.

[BluffTHIS!]

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Egypt welched on part of the deal to recognize Israel.

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I agree with a lot of your post but the above assertion is false and Israel and Egypt in fact have full diplomatic relations and exchange of ambassadors, which obviously is recognition. If you mean that Egypt doesn't recognize Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel that is a different issue which doesn't keep them from having diplomatic relations.

Here is a handy wiki map showing Israel's diplomatic relations with other countries.

[theblitz]

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Israel and Egypt in fact have full diplomatic relations and exchange of ambassadors

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This is true up to a point.

The Egyptians do have an ambassador in Israel but he is "recalled for consultation" more often than he is in Israel.

It is also true that Mubarak NEVER visits Israel. I am not 100% sure but I think he has actually never been here.

[theblitz]

I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

All other parties are there for personal reasons:

1. Olmert is hoping to use the "Peace Process" in order to deflect attention from the bribery etc. scandals he is involved in. When an ex-member of the High Court says that they intentionally went easy on Sharron because "his political actions at the time were important to Israel" then I think Olmert has a good chance of this helping.

2. Rice is there to try and make up for all the rubbish she has done in her job. She is generally recognised as the worst Secretary of State ever.

3. Bush is there in order to try and salvage something from his tenure. HE totally screwed up in Iraq (a war I actually supported). This is his last chance to earn his Nobel Peace Prize.

[SNOWBALL]

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I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

what the [censored] are you talking about? The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years. In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak. These are human beings. They want a life worth living. This means they want their own land and they want freedom. A lot of people don't realize this, but palestinians are among the most liberal arabs in the world.
If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

[theblitz]

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The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years.

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The palestiniands have NEVER recognised Israel's right to exist. Arafat did send a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO does do so but the PLO is NOT the government and never has been.

As part of the Oslo agreement they were required to do so.
They brought it up to the committee of the Fatah and promised to create a special task force in order to investigate the actual doing so. That is as far as it has ever gone.
Even the most staunch left-wingers in Israel admit so.
In fact, each time a peace proposal comes up the big thing that is mentioned is that the Palestinians are now ready to recognise Israel.

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In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

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Nice idea but total rubbish. No other word for it.
Try looking here:
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...risrael-3.html

And, before you say anything, I know that it includes a few cases of some Israelis performing terrorist attack on the Palestinians.

Also, you might want to look here to see what happened to terrorist acts after the Oslo "Peace Accords".

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The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak.

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Funnily enough Israelis are the same. However, at the end of the day it is the leaders you deal with and they are the ones that can't be truated.

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These are human beings.

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I assume you are talking about the ones who fire on school buses and blow themselves up in cafe's.

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If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

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Or, you could stop giving money to Egypt who give it to the Hamas and stop giving money to the Saudis who pass it on to al-Qaeda.

[Bedreviter]

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I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

what the [censored] are you talking about? The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years. In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak. These are human beings. They want a life worth living. This means they want their own land and they want freedom. A lot of people don't realize this, but palestinians are among the most liberal arabs in the world.
If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

[/ QUOTE ]

The level of liberality among most Palestinians does not help much when an organization like Hamas is popular among the same people. Hamas are certainly not just fighting for their own peaceful Palestine state, they are also fighitng against the existance of a jewish nation in the area.

Building democracy in the Arab world is probably not acheived by letting Israel be left defenseless, as it is surruounded by less than friendly neighbors.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

My memory is failing me on this subject...
I remember there was some diplomatic related accord that Egypt had welched on. The wiki article on the Camp David accords is not helpful because it only refers to both sides "generally" abiding by the agreement without going into specifics of violations. I'll do my homework when I have more time....