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#31
11-22-2007, 01:31 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree, what the hell is up with telling the kid to get out of the car for? [/ QUOTE ] He was about to be arrested. He refused to sign the ticket (Which is basically a bond saying you'll pay the fine or show up for your court date) so at that point, the next step was to take him in an book him. That was the drivers choice, which he then resisted that as well. This cop needs some serious conflict resolution training. His job will be much easier if he learns to use his mouth and not his taser. I have little doubt many cops would have had the driver signing the ticket no sweat. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly: The speeder was an idiot. The cop needed to explain to him, calmly and with words of one or two syllables, that his options were to sign the ticket or to go to jail, and that signing the ticket was a promise to appear in court, not an admission of guilt. Instead, as soon as the guy says "I'm not signing anything" he tells him to hop out of the car and then to turn around. I don't think the guy even realized at this point that he was being arrested. Maybe the idiot still wouldn't have signed, but I'm guessing that he would have. 
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#32
11-22-2007, 04:39 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
Calc is an idiot.
Now we can move on... I'm largely pro-police. In my previous job I worked closely with police and attended many joint training conferences so I have a pretty good feel for what their job is about. Most police officers are pretty decent people and good at their job. These guys put their lives on the line to keep the community safe and I respect that. I do have a problem with Taser use though. I live in Canada and it's a bit of a hot button issue at the moment due to the number of deaths resulting from their use of late (another today in Nova Scotia). There are some police officers who are bad at their jobs (just like there are bad teachers, social workers, and grocery store check out clerks) - they exist in every field. The problem with police officers who are not very good at their jobs is that they have access to some dangerous toys. The problem (as I see it) is if a police officer lacks strong crisis intervention skills (or has no desire to practice them) routine situations can escalate into high risk situations very quickly. In the OP's video we have a situation that could have been diffused before they even ordered the kid out of the car. Yeah the kid may have been a douche but that is irrelevant. The situation in the Vancouver airport where the Polish man was killed is the same. Better response from airport management and security as well as better crisis management skills by the RCMP officers and the situation is deescalated quickly (I've discussed these points in a lounge post). I'm not advocating that we get rid of the Tasers. I think they are a great tool that definitely save more lives than they take. However better training for the officers is required - not just in the physical use of the the Tasers but in other skills that would deescalate a crisis so the Taser can remain holstered. I'm not sure of the stats so I'd be curious how often the questionable use of the Taser in by young, inexperienced officers. I'm not talking about the hotheads because these are guys who are just bad at their work. I'm talking about young guys who mean well but don't have the experience to diffuse a crisis. Non-violent crisis intervention skills take years to hone and some of these guys are not yet equipped to deal with potentially volatile situations.
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#33
11-22-2007, 04:42 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
[ QUOTE ]
formula for cop-related thread in OOT: OP about some questionable situation involving police officer "I [censored] hate pigs" "cops are douches" semi-intelligent banter about how the officer overstepped his limits "[suspect] was a douche" intelligent discussion about necessary police precautions "cops don't have the right to bla bla bla" "don't taze me bro" follow-up post 3 days later about how suspect gets 12.7M settlement [/ QUOTE ] DONT TAZE ME BRO [/end thread]
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#38
11-22-2007, 10:21 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
Neither one handled this well. Generally it's a good idea to keep your mouth shut during something like this -- when the cop asks him how fast he was going, and he says "68" (thinking he was in a 65-mph zone, I gather), I already knew it was going to go badly. (beyond knowing that the guy was going to get tazed that is) However, generally you keep your mouth shut so you don't self-incriminate yourself - not because you're afraid of getting tazed. So, while I myself would never have acted like this, I still wouldn't want to get pulled over by a cop who's so ready to respond like this.
compare with the video here, eh (most ppl have probably seen this before): no tazer here [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure of the stats so I'd be curious how often the questionable use of the Taser in by young, inexperienced officers. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know if you're referring to this incident, but most of the news accounts say this officer is a 14-yr veteran. And the wife was 7 months pregnant, so probably a good thing she didn't 'get tazed as well'. And, it's apparently not illegal to refuse to sign the ticket in Utah. Refusing can get you arrested, but that's not mandatory. Apparently there's a checkbox right on the ticket where the officer can indicate "refused to sign". [ QUOTE ] Salt Lake civil rights attorney Brian Barnard agreed police do have the right to arrest a driver who does not sign a speeding ticket. Refusing to sign a ticket is not a crime under Utah state law. Signing a citation but then failing to show up in court, however, is a class B misdemeanor. Another option if a driver refuses to sign a ticket is for the officer to "put it in the car in a professional manner and leave it at that," Roden said. [/ QUOTE ] http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,5143,695230005,00.html
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#39
11-22-2007, 10:58 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
Yes. The questions "Do you know how fast you were going?" and "Do you know why I stopped you" are intended to get you to admit guilt. You should never answer these questions in a manner that admits guilt.
In my experience when I have gotten traffic tickets, the cop normally explains that signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt, but a promise to appear in court (or pay the fine if that's an option). Dealing with idiots like the speeder in the video is part of a cop's job (one of the more unpleasant parts I'm sure). If the cop in the video doesn't learn to do it better, he will likely have a short career as a cop, either because he gets fired or because he gets killed.
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#40
11-22-2007, 11:24 PM
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Re: Ride With The Taser
So, the cop is driving along the Utah highway, and is coming up on a temporary speed limit sign and pulls to the side of the road. After one car passes, he pulls the guy over for speeding, and they come to the side of the road a few hundred yards into the new speed limit zone. This is dirty and the sort of [censored] that should not be condoned on the force. Way to work towards the investigation of suspected criminal activity and the referral of the results of investigations and of suspected criminals to the courts.
The cop is super out of line in the way he handles the situation he creates also, but I thought the manner in which he pulled the guy over to be almost as bad.
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