NLHE:TAP "Concepts" Discussion Post (somewhat long)

[steamboatin]

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Concept No. 55: Unlike limit, limping first in on the button is frequently correct.

In this section it talks about raised on the button with hands like J9s cuts down on your implied odds (600 stack, 5-10blinds, with a PRasie to 30 you cut down implied odds from 600-10 to 600-30).

my question is: What about min raises from the button with a hand like J9s (or small pocket pairs/ A-X suited - hands that have potential play well after the flop and can win big pots) in order to make a bigger pot for the times you do hit - since it wont be multiway. any theories/ideas/experiences?



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LMAO!!!!!!

Min-raise...lol. Good one.


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great respose, way to help out the quality of the forums from your thourough and decisive answers


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Sorry, it's just so basic though. I'll tell you what I'm always told about very basic concepts on this site...use the search feature.



[/ QUOTE ] I won't go into details but I read some pretty good stuff in defense of the mini raise. The primary reason being, it really pisses off the other players.

[LordBrun]

[/ QUOTE ] I won't go into details but I read some pretty good stuff in defense of the mini raise. The primary reason being, it really pisses off the other players.

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Wierd minraises on later streets can be extremly frustrating and tilt-inducing. The preflop minraise rarely, if ever, has that effect.

[jackaaron]

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Concept No. 55: Unlike limit, limping first in on the button is frequently correct.

In this section it talks about raised on the button with hands like J9s cuts down on your implied odds (600 stack, 5-10blinds, with a PRasie to 30 you cut down implied odds from 600-10 to 600-30).

my question is: What about min raises from the button with a hand like J9s (or small pocket pairs/ A-X suited - hands that have potential play well after the flop and can win big pots) in order to make a bigger pot for the times you do hit - since it wont be multiway. any theories/ideas/experiences?



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LMAO!!!!!!

Min-raise...lol. Good one.


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great respose, way to help out the quality of the forums from your thourough and decisive answers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry, it's just so basic though. I'll tell you what I'm always told about very basic concepts on this site...use the search feature.



[/ QUOTE ] I won't go into details but I read some pretty good stuff in defense of the mini raise. The primary reason being, it really pisses off the other players.

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Again, the OP was talking pre-flop, open min raising. For example, the blinds are 15/30, and you open t60. lol. No, that doesn't induce tilt, that makes people "lick their chops."

[fraac]

I can make that exact move pay 3 times versus any table in the world.

[Pokamon4e]

Okay, I'll ask: I have read some arguments in favor of min-raising in NLHTAP. So, why will it make people lick their chops, and why is that bad?

[CasinoR7]

Most of the time it's not good to minraise. Some players who actually belong to a limit table, constantly minraise. That is bad, because in NL you can change the bet size to your advantage. With a minraise you are giving cheap cards to people with drawing hands.

[Pokamon4e]

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Most of the time it's not good to minraise. Some players who actually belong to a limit table, constantly minraise. That is bad, because in NL you can change the bet size to your advantage. With a minraise you are giving cheap cards to people with drawing hands.

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I agree, but I still think the OP's question is perfectly reasonable, as Sklansky and Miller advocate min-raising with "big-pot hands" to raise the stakes.

No reason to laugh at him at all (I know you didn't).

[godofPOPOV]

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Most of the time it's not good to minraise. Some players who actually belong to a limit table, constantly minraise. That is bad, because in NL you can change the bet size to your advantage. With a minraise you are giving cheap cards to people with drawing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I still think the OP's question is perfectly reasonable, as Sklansky and Miller advocate min-raising with "big-pot hands" to raise the stakes.

No reason to laugh at him at all (I know you didn't).

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thanks, im glad someone finally understood where i was coming from.


minraise PF in a not-quite multiway pot with hands that either make big hands or none at all. raise the stakesand make a big pot in hopes of hitting your set when it isnt quite multiway, etc.


plus you might just be able to pick up the pot with a c-bet if you miss, etc.

[jackaaron]

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Most of the time it's not good to minraise. Some players who actually belong to a limit table, constantly minraise. That is bad, because in NL you can change the bet size to your advantage. With a minraise you are giving cheap cards to people with drawing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I still think the OP's question is perfectly reasonable, as Sklansky and Miller advocate min-raising with "big-pot hands" to raise the stakes.

No reason to laugh at him at all (I know you didn't).

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Just show me where they talk favorably about:
Being first to enter the pot pre-flop, and for a min raise (25/50 blinds, and you make it 100). Or, a few limpers have entered the pot, pre-flop, and you min raise then. I'll obviously stand corrected. I just doubt that they would talk favorably about this situation since if you want to "build the pot" as the OP suggests, you would obviously raise it more. And, by min-raising, you're getting no information from your opponents since anyone with half a brain will call a min raise to bust you since you're making it cheap for them.
I laughed at OP, but I'm okay with being wrong about this since I see SO MANY donkies min-raising pre-flop every single day.
Please don't confuse this with min-raising while on the flop, where your opponent has already bet (say the pot) and you make the minimum raise.

[zahi1974]

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Most of the time it's not good to minraise. Some players who actually belong to a limit table, constantly minraise. That is bad, because in NL you can change the bet size to your advantage. With a minraise you are giving cheap cards to people with drawing hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but I still think the OP's question is perfectly reasonable, as Sklansky and Miller advocate min-raising with "big-pot hands" to raise the stakes.

No reason to laugh at him at all (I know you didn't).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just show me where they talk favorably about:
Being first to enter the pot pre-flop, and for a min raise (25/50 blinds, and you make it 100). Or, a few limpers have entered the pot, pre-flop, and you min raise then. I'll obviously stand corrected. I just doubt that they would talk favorably about this situation since if you want to "build the pot" as the OP suggests, you would obviously raise it more. And, by min-raising, you're getting no information from your opponents since anyone with half a brain will call a min raise to bust you since you're making it cheap for them.
I laughed at OP, but I'm okay with being wrong about this since I see SO MANY donkies min-raising pre-flop every single day.
Please don't confuse this with min-raising while on the flop, where your opponent has already bet (say the pot) and you make the minimum raise.

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Well, I think he is talking about concept 29 (p. 267 in nlhtap), where sklansky/miller are saying: "It's ok to make small raises (2-3x the big blind) to build the pot or to set up future plays" As an example S/M present someone who hast ATs in early position. And I have to say, that it seems pretty reasonable for me to do this in some spots to bring variaton to your game.

BTW.: In particular preflop-raising is an often discussed topic. Some say you shouldn't vary the amount of it anytime, some say you should vary it, dependent what your position is and some (eg. S/M) say you have to vary it according to your holding and the intentions what you want to archieve with it, but you have to be also deceptive. So it seems to me, that the only thing which is widely accepted without contradiciton is, that the preflop-raise has to be the bigger the more players have entered the pot... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

greetings!