25NL 3betting light vs LAG

Rushdown · #1 03-08-2007, 10:42 PM

Villain was 35/28

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($29.50)
UTG ($21.35)
MP ($51.80)
Button ($26.05)
SB ($40.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $1.5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4.5, MP calls $3.

Flop: ($9.10) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP calls $4.

Turn: ($17.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $12.95, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.05

Thoughts?

DawnToDusk · #2 03-08-2007, 11:15 PM

I think our big problem here is the PF line. More talk on the flop line in a bit.

The hand that you are calling with PF is more of a speculative hand. This hand is good to make stronger hands such as straights and flushes which can easily stack someone at the micro limits. Even when it makes two pair, it can show a considerable amount of profit. With that being said I think you have the wrong idea about how to play this hand against this villian. Sorry if I sound like a douche. I hope I don't come across like one.

If our villian was a TAG and you were in position on our TAG then I would consider just calling this PF. With a TAGgy player, his range can be condensed to a small group of hands if he is a straight forward TAG (not mixing up his game and stuff). When you call a TAGs raise with a speculative hand you hope to hit something or make something strong and hope your opponent hits an okay to good hand. The stronger the hand they make the easier it is to get your money in the middle and stack them. The worse it is the more maneuvering you have to do to build the pot up. Hopefully you will be able to build it up to the point where once you spring your big bet on them they may feel priced in with their okay hand. Against our villian here his raising range is very wide. Although you may stack him cuse he does have a good hand, it is less likely that you will cuse his range is so wide that he won't connect with the board often enough to make an okay to strong hand. So essentially your implied odds against this type of player are worse than with a TAG. There are cases where you will find fishy players who go to the river with very marginal hands and holdings like these can have showdown value. But this isn't the case here.

Another thing I notice is that you are building a big pot out of position. You opponent is in position to win the most from you and you will win the least from him since you are OOP. The last thing I want to do is to build a big pot where I have reverse implied odds, especially with a marginal hand.

So I guess what it comes down to is a fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Sorry it took so long to spit it out but those are the thoughts that come to my mind when I look at this hand. I might consider calling this PF if I am the last to close the action and some more people have called. On the flop I am done though unless I hit a strong draw, strong hand, or some sort of combo/draw.

Looking at the flop I see it this way. The only way you are going to win this hand is if you bet now and hope your opponent didn't get a piece of this flop. Your flop bet isn't large enough though. He could be in here with something very marginal and just looking at your stack in hopes that if he hits you will pay him off. We all know that you won't pay him off if he improves a marginal holding greatly but you are offering odds of better than 3-to-1 and large implied odds. I'd say a bet of $7 dollars here is more appropriate. Even though you don't have a lot and it looks like you are telling yourself you are going to give up if called. You can't give away the strength of your hand by betting a smaller amount. If you make small C-Bets when you just barely get a piece of the flop then people will start catching on. Plus your opponent might look at the $7 bet and think it has more strength and fold marginal holdings that beat you but can't stand a lot of heat.

DerrtySlime · #3 03-08-2007, 11:33 PM

pf is a mistake. calling here and seeing a flop with this kind of hand is better than trying to get a player who 7xed it pre fold a most likely powerful hand.

Vyse · #4 03-09-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think our big problem here is the PF line. More talk on the flop line in a bit.

The hand that you are calling with PF is more of a speculative hand. This hand is good to make stronger hands such as straights and flushes which can easily stack someone at the micro limits. Even when it makes two pair, it can show a considerable amount of profit. With that being said I think you have the wrong idea about how to play this hand against this villian. Sorry if I sound like a douche. I hope I don't come across like one.

If our villian was a TAG and you were in position on our TAG then I would consider just calling this PF. With a TAGgy player, his range can be condensed to a small group of hands if he is a straight forward TAG (not mixing up his game and stuff). When you call a TAGs raise with a speculative hand you hope to hit something or make something strong and hope your opponent hits an okay to good hand. The stronger the hand they make the easier it is to get your money in the middle and stack them. The worse it is the more maneuvering you have to do to build the pot up. Hopefully you will be able to build it up to the point where once you spring your big bet on them they may feel priced in with their okay hand. Against our villian here his raising range is very wide. Although you may stack him cuse he does have a good hand, it is less likely that you will cuse his range is so wide that he won't connect with the board often enough to make an okay to strong hand. So essentially your implied odds against this type of player are worse than with a TAG. There are cases where you will find fishy players who go to the river with very marginal hands and holdings like these can have showdown value. But this isn't the case here.

Another thing I notice is that you are building a big pot out of position. You opponent is in position to win the most from you and you will win the least from him since you are OOP. The last thing I want to do is to build a big pot where I have reverse implied odds, especially with a marginal hand.

So I guess what it comes down to is a fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Sorry it took so long to spit it out but those are the thoughts that come to my mind when I look at this hand. I might consider calling this PF if I am the last to close the action and some more people have called. On the flop I am done though unless I hit a strong draw, strong hand, or some sort of combo/draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

vnh

MrMxyztplk · #5 03-09-2007, 01:11 AM

$4 flop bet? Gross. Bet $7-8 or check.