KJo 2nd pair

[Xylocain]

Villan is a lagtard, roughly break even but vpips ~75%. Hero has been playing pretty tight pre flop but relatively well for a while and is up quite a lot.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Xylocain is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Xylocain raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5SB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Xylocain bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Xylocain bets</font>, SB calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Xylocain checks.

Results:
Final pot: 5.5BB

[bellatrix]

I would keep on betting -&gt; Value

[Qwijibo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would keep on betting -&gt; Value

[/ QUOTE ]

[scpi10]

grunch

Bet the river. If he's a lag doesn't he raise top pair on the flop or turn?

[Bona]

Well for me it comes down to how he has played. If I've seen him wait till the river to check raise or even raise I probably check it through. I would hate to get raised here because I don't think I can fold it to this guy.

On the other hand if we've seen him call down with 2nd pair low kicker or even worse. Maybe a value bet would be OK. He is not going to fold anything that beats you here IMO. But he is going to fold some missed hands here. I think I tend to check it through. Our hand is pretty weak. And so am I [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[kbdunn]

Bet. If villain is capable of c/r with air or weak stuff or is super dummy aggro, bet/call, otherwise bet/fold.

Checking behind here misses a lot of value on the river, unless you know villain will only call rivers with a decent hand &gt; middle pair. If he is capable of c/r both weak and monster hands instead of calling with them (thinking aggro), then go back to b/c in position and c/c OOP.

[DavidSRT]

value bet

[sccrneo]

value bet. have no reason to think villain is slowplaying a better hand. he is unlikely to raise without a monster, unless you have a specific read. i think villain is calling here more often with a weak made hand we beat than a hand that beats us.

[MoonOrb]

What have you seen him do after the flop?

Everyone says bet here, but this situation absolutely is killing me and I'm having a hard time figuring it out. I'm finding that when I bet in this situation, villain often folds...presumably he was on a draw or just fishing for an A. So in cases where villain folds, our bet gets us nothing.

And when I'm called, it seems in so many cases that villain is holding, say, Q4 or something and just c/c all the way. So I lose a bet here by trying to get value.

And then there are those times when I'm c/r. It's hard not to pay that off because I don't want to tell anyone paying attention that I'll fold to a river c/r.

In this case, I know you said villain is a lagtard, but is he aggro after the flop or just before? I'm having a difficult time figuring out what he calls you down here with that doesn't beat you. A worse J? A high? A pocket pair? Is he raising with all of his A's preflop? Do you know if he raises with all of his pocket pairs or just limp in with them?

If we think we will win when called more than half the time, then we bet the river, I think. I'm just not confident that we'll win more than half the time when we're ahead. There's a good chance on this board that he had a GSD and will just fold it.

So I play this hand the same way you did.

Edited: Ok, not "everyone" said bet. Sorry, Bona.

[MoonOrb]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a lag doesn't he raise top pair on the flop or turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it might be useful here to make a distinction in his pre and post flop play.