FT 100 seat guarantee for WSOP ME - AQo - Page 2

Riverrun · #11 06-18-2007, 01:46 PM

one other question: would you shove AJs or AJo here too?

actually, i guess my question is what is your shove range here.

Sherman · #12 06-18-2007, 01:49 PM

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Stop and go is bad here.

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Why?

Edit: Just to be clear, I still think shoving is best. Just wondering why you think a Stop N Go is bad?

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AQ is too good of a hand, you let him play almost perfectly by SnG with AQ, ie, folding KJ, AJ etc when the flop is bricks, and hes never folding a hand that your losing too (maybe 22-55 depending on flop texture)

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Well he might also fold AK on a brick flop that you shove as well. He might also fold 77-99 on a KJ4 flop. There are plently of hands that you are behind that you can fold out on the flop.

So long as he doesn't know what your doing, why not SNG any flop you miss and check to him on any flop you hit?

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hes not folding AK or 77-99, at least he shouldn't be.

Your hand is to valuable to Stop and go, just put in preflop. Also that line u say, is obviously really exploitable. ("why not SNG any flop you miss and check to him on any flop you hit? ")

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Yes it is obviously exploitable. But only if he knows that is the line we are taking! If he doesn't know that, he can't exploit it.

This line, "You're hand is too valuable to Stop and Go" doesn't make any sense to me. What does this mean? Too valuable against his range?

So you think our equity of shoving against his range is greater than our equity of Stop N Go? Like I said, I still tend to think shoving is best PF, but we don't really have any "Proof" that it is better than a SNG.

BTW, how sure are we that he isn't folding 77-99 or AK on a bad flop?

ZJ123 · #13 06-18-2007, 01:55 PM

im not sure hes folding 77-99 or AK, but he should never being folding AK, and rarelly folding 77-99 maybe on AKQ flops... But you wouldnt stop and go those flops.... right?

If the villian has heard of stop and go before then it allows him to play more perfectly as hes never going to fold a pair or AJ+, but might fold other hands that you want value out of.

Sherman · #14 06-18-2007, 02:03 PM

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im not sure hes folding 77-99 or AK, but he should never being folding AK, and rarelly folding 77-99 maybe on AKQ flops... But you wouldnt stop and go those flops.... right?

If the villian has heard of stop and go before then it allows him to play more perfectly as hes never going to fold a pair or AJ+, but might fold other hands that you want value out of.

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Fair enough. I agree. If villain understands the SNG, he isn't folding the top of his range against a flop shove. Neither would I. He will only fold hands that we had beat anyway that might have called PF.

Anyhow, I think some more analyses need to be done on the SNG in terms of calculating equity. If anyone knows of an equity calculator that only deals flop (or can be set to only deal flops) I'd be interested in locating it.

Thanks ZJ.

betgo · #15 06-18-2007, 02:35 PM

SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

Sherman · #16 06-18-2007, 02:38 PM

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SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

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Betgo,

Do you really think passing up on the cEV this far from the seats is +$EV?

betgo · #17 06-18-2007, 02:39 PM

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SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

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Betgo,

Do you really think passing up on the cEV this far from the seats is +$EV?

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Yes.

Sherman · #18 06-18-2007, 02:41 PM

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SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

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Betgo,

Do you really think passing up on the cEV this far from the seats is +$EV?

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Yes.

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LOL. Obv. OK.

betgo · #19 06-18-2007, 02:50 PM

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SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

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Betgo,

Do you really think passing up on the cEV this far from the seats is +$EV?

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Yes.

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LOL. Obv. OK.

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LOL, 2u. How many seats did you win yesterday? I certainly didn't win them by winning a bunch of coin tosses.

Yeh, I win seats by stealing and my priority is to stay alive. I wouldn't take a borderline cEV+ opportunity, but I would probably push if I had FE.

Incidently, for OP, this should probably be posted in high stakes MTT, but here is OK too. It doesn't belong in TC/WSOP.

Sherman · #20 06-18-2007, 03:38 PM

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SNG is much better in a satellite, because the priority is to survive. SNGing AQ in an MTT is not terrible either. but I usually woundln't do it with 77-AA or AK.

Villain's large raise looks like 66-JJ or AQ/AK. I would fold without much thought in a satellite, even though pushing is cEV+. I just look to win pots without a showdown and avoid a big confrontation, but what do I know I am just a nit who won two seats yesterday.

IMO fold > SNG > push.

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Betgo,

Do you really think passing up on the cEV this far from the seats is +$EV?

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Yes.

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LOL. Obv. OK.

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LOL, 2u. How many seats did you win yesterday? I certainly didn't win them by winning a bunch of coin tosses.

Yeh, I win seats by stealing and my priority is to stay alive. I wouldn't take a borderline cEV+ opportunity, but I would probably push if I had FE.

Incidently, for OP, this should probably be posted in high stakes MTT, but here is OK too. It doesn't belong in TC/WSOP.

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Sorry Betgo if you mis-interpreted my LOL. I was laughing at myself for asking the question, not you. I was saying your answer to my question was obvious given your previous post. Sorry if it sounded like I was saying you were wrong.

Sherman