The future of limit poker

[RunDownHouse]

Veron,

I've played around with NL some. There's a few reasons I haven't more, but the two in the forefront are that 1) I have to play to pay the bills, and 2) Learning a new game is a huge timesink.

Obviously 1 and 2 are connected. I've read NLH: T&P multiple times. I've put a few k hands in at various NL levels. But at the end of the day, I've spent thousands of hours learning about and thinking about limit. I also put lots of hours every day playing limit; as I have to do so to pay the bills, that comes first. As a result, I have trouble putting in more hours playing NL. I can't play tons of tables at once, so its really an either/or proposition for me. If I play four hours and hit my goal, I absolutely do not feel like playing NL50 for a few hours to get experience.

Anyways, go with 6max. All the reasons you'd play 6max limit are applicable to NL as well. I can't think of a 6max principle that's not applicable to full.

[restless]

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How much better is NL short? Is it as fun as FR limit at least?

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im just curious about this idea the NL is sooo boring? whats up with that? why do you guys find it boring?

I'm a pretty nitty NL 6max players and my stats hover around 27/17 so i play probably the approx. same amount of hands as I do in 6max FL. I'm tight as mother teresa in EP but you can really go apeshit crazy on the button. I have no doubt that good players can widen their range significantly and play a lot more hands. Yes, you'll see less showdowns but otherwise, how could it be so much more boring than FL?

I think both forms of HE has their moments and appeal to me for different reasons. I like the in depth analysis and theoretical aspect of FL (yes i know, its not just about theory...), and I kinda like NL.. i dunno , maybe for the same reasons people can't stop staring at car crashes when they drive by?.

[Veron]

Thanx for your reply RDH.

I understand the switch is a huge timesink, but for me that's not as big a problem as for you. I have ordered Gordon's Green book and NL Theory & Practice and I will first spend time reading them before I start to play the 50NL tables. The reason I'm also considering NL full ring is that It's said to be easier to start with and there's less variance.

Also, variance vs winrate is one of the main reasons why I want to play another game than FL 6max.

[Wolfram]

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I'm a pretty nitty NL 6max players and my stats hover around 27/17

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Dude! 27/17 isn't close to being a nitty 6-maxer. You sir, are a LAG (no offense intended [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

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I have ordered Gordon's Green book and NL Theory & Practice

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I've just got to say that although these books are good and def. worth reading I think the best info on playing NL (especially 6-max and online) is found in our very own forums. Start out with the stickies in the micro- and small stakes no-limit forums.


Disclaimer: I play mostly NL 6max online because that is my strongest game right now (graduated from SnG's) but live I play more FR limit. I'm experimenting with 6max LHE online (FR online is so booooooring) and think it's heaps of fun but haven't really figured the game out yet.


As for NL being boring, I can understand the viewpoint coming from LHE 6maxers because the main difference is there are a lot fewer showdowns.

No, you do not just wait for a big hand. No, you do not just nut peddle. You do however let TPTK go on a dry board when a TAG check/raises the turn. You don't 3bet KQs pf and you generally don't play < KJo except (and here comes the biggest difference) when you have position. Position is your biggest weapon in NL and you use it as such. You 3bet 56s in position. You take down pots with c-bets in position. You float and then bet the turn with air in position. And you fold almost every marginal hand (KQo, JTs etc) to a raise out of position. And reads become even more important.

But there are fewer showdowns. And you let go of hands more easily. Mostly though, the biggest difference is the increased edge you have on bad players.

On every street in LHE you have 3 options, fold, check(call), or bet(raise). You have a 1/3 chance of making the maximally EV play by blind luck. In NL you add bet-sizing (and call-sizing as well) to the mix, and that is where most players make their biggest mistakes. Betting for value takes on a whole new dimension when you are exponentially increasing the pot on each street, and donkey's still call you down with underpairs or flushdraws.

Ultimately though, the two games are just different. Neither is better than the other. Pros and cons. LHE is about taking odds, NL is about making them. Both games are however the battle for least mistakes.

Final thought. It is said that LHE was invented to keep the fish playing, since it is assumed that they'll go broke faster in NL. Right now, they don't seem to realize that, so we might as well ride that wave while it lasts. But someday that might change and LHE will be king again.

[Kharlog]

I have played about 20k hands in 6-max no limit. I found it really boring. I was 3- or 4-tabling first but eventually I found it so boring that I decided to 8 table it. I got some steady winrate on very low limits (10-25max) and was almost bored to death. I'm listening my friends whining how they lose buy ins to fishes and how boring it is to wait for the nuts to get involved in some action. In limit hold'em I don't have much of a problem with that. Certainly NL is more popular than FL but I don't believe it's going to "die" anytime soon.

PS. I'm fully satisfied with game pace of one HU table or two 6-max tables.

[Jiggymike]

IMO MTTs are the most exciting form of poker, even when deepstacked, if playing for a "rush." I also think they involve the most strategy (but possibly the most luck as well). Please correct me if I am erroneous.

[SlyGuy]

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IMO MTTs are the most exciting form of poker, even when deepstacked, if playing for a "rush." I also think they involve the most strategy (but possibly the most luck as well). Please correct me if I am erroneous.

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I think that is where you are missing the difference. SH Limit hold'em isn't a rush, but constant mental stimulation. You need to make a lot of small decisions.

[Bullitos]

I like MTT's when I win coinflips, otherwise I hate them.

[27offsooot]

Hand today:
CO opens, I 3B AJo, he calls.

AK4 flop,
i bet, he calls

turn 9
I bet, he calls

river A
I check, he bets, I raise, he calls

His hand: Q8

No limit hold'them is not dead. FWIW, I play a non-PT site and find the quality about equivalent as it was a year and a half - two years ago.

[theflyingcow]

Classic bluff-call. I love it. =D