Stars VIP Wild speculation

[OnlinePro]

For those of you out of touch with the real world, which seems about 90% of people in this thread. The online poker community is losing more and more players by the day. The sites are looking for more ways to profit more from the players who play the most and will continue to play. So lets stop thinking about the fish because they are gone.

1. Good move by increasing maximum tables.

2. Bad move not to implement happy hour bonus VPP for dead hours.

3. Stars dont be greedy. Dont think about how to make extra 1 dollar for 20 days think about how to make extra 25c for 200 days. Stop thinking short term profit.

4. Your affiliate program sucks. You need to make your affiliate program much more profitable for affiliates so that new players are coming in.

5. Your tournaments, and no limit games are fine. Healthy supply of fish and healthy supply of game selection. Your in trouble in the limit department. 5 pros in every 6 max table now. and 8 pros in every 10 player table. Average flop seen percentage on a 6 max table is at 22%, there are sites where the full ring games average 28% flops seens percentage. Meaning your marketing teams needs to find a way to target limit holdem players to the site.

A. More multi table limit tournaments
B. Target specific marketing.
c. Higher bonuses for limit playing.
d. I wouldnt be totally angry for BBJ to be added in limit games.

Limit games absoloutly cannot get any worse than they are right now.


For now every person I meet at the local B n M have completely quit playing online poker. Stating these reasons

1. Its a folding marathon, Ive never seen so much folding in my life.

2. Sites are rigged.

3. Cant get money out.

4. Borring tables, no action. All "house" players on every table

5. They can see your cards and set you up to lose.



If pokerstars would take the partypoker approach to marketing then we can go back to the good ol days of poker. Pokerstars and FTP i believer are responcible for the decline of online poker with their greedy, cheap, and just plain non effective approaches on marketing.


Partypoker use to pay affiliates 100 dollars for each new depositing player, with bonuses. These were no points required, so an affiliate could just transfer 50 dollars to a friend for free and get 100 dollars for them. Sounds like easy money doesnt it ? Well believe it or not this lead to the huge growth of partypoker. With over 100 affiliates averaging more than 300 new players per month this kept the flow of fish constant.

What does pokerstars do with marketing money ? Shoot a 45 second commercial with Joseph Hashem shooting a basketball like a girl. Yes that will bring in a lot of players. On top of that the TV ads only bring in these players to the play money site with no real reason for these players to deposit. A whopping 50 dollar sign up bonus ?

Who the hell is in charge of running things over there /?

It is very simple to see what has worked before, just implement the same type of advertising techniques as partypoker did and it will all be better. Please stop these stupid Hashem and moneymaker negranu and moronic wastes of money on TV ads which only attract play money players when you can directly attract a real money player through a solid affiliate program, where everyone will be telling their friends to sign up because they will be paid.


Just out of curiousity I wonder how many active affiliates there are for stars as opposed to how many active affiliates there was for party before the UIEGA.

[BK1248]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you out of touch with the real world, which seems about 90% of people in this thread. The online poker community is losing more and more players by the day. The sites are looking for more ways to profit more from the players who play the most and will continue to play. So lets stop thinking about the fish because they are gone.

1. Good move by increasing maximum tables.

2. Bad move not to implement happy hour bonus VPP for dead hours.

3. Stars dont be greedy. Dont think about how to make extra 1 dollar for 20 days think about how to make extra 25c for 200 days. Stop thinking short term profit.

4. Your affiliate program sucks. You need to make your affiliate program much more profitable for affiliates so that new players are coming in.

5. Your tournaments, and no limit games are fine. Healthy supply of fish and healthy supply of game selection. Your in trouble in the limit department. 5 pros in every 6 max table now. and 8 pros in every 10 player table. Average flop seen percentage on a 6 max table is at 22%, there are sites where the full ring games average 28% flops seens percentage. Meaning your marketing teams needs to find a way to target limit holdem players to the site.

A. More multi table limit tournaments
B. Target specific marketing.
c. Higher bonuses for limit playing.
d. I wouldnt be totally angry for BBJ to be added in limit games.

Limit games absoloutly cannot get any worse than they are right now.


For now every person I meet at the local B n M have completely quit playing online poker. Stating these reasons

1. Its a folding marathon, Ive never seen so much folding in my life.

2. Sites are rigged.

3. Cant get money out.

4. Borring tables, no action. All "house" players on every table

5. They can see your cards and set you up to lose.



If pokerstars would take the partypoker approach to marketing then we can go back to the good ol days of poker. Pokerstars and FTP i believer are responcible for the decline of online poker with their greedy, cheap, and just plain non effective approaches on marketing.


Partypoker use to pay affiliates 100 dollars for each new depositing player, with bonuses. These were no points required, so an affiliate could just transfer 50 dollars to a friend for free and get 100 dollars for them. Sounds like easy money doesnt it ? Well believe it or not this lead to the huge growth of partypoker. With over 100 affiliates averaging more than 300 new players per month this kept the flow of fish constant.

What does pokerstars do with marketing money ? Shoot a 45 second commercial with Joseph Hashem shooting a basketball like a girl. Yes that will bring in a lot of players. On top of that the TV ads only bring in these players to the play money site with no real reason for these players to deposit. A whopping 50 dollar sign up bonus ?

Who the hell is in charge of running things over there /?

It is very simple to see what has worked before, just implement the same type of advertising techniques as partypoker did and it will all be better. Please stop these stupid Hashem and moneymaker negranu and moronic wastes of money on TV ads which only attract play money players when you can directly attract a real money player through a solid affiliate program, where everyone will be telling their friends to sign up because they will be paid.


Just out of curiousity I wonder how many active affiliates there are for stars as opposed to how many active affiliates there was for party before the UIEGA.

[/ QUOTE ]

tl;dr

[Mischman]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you out of touch with the real world, which seems about 90% of people in this thread. The online poker community is losing more and more players by the day. The sites are looking for more ways to profit more from the players who play the most and will continue to play. So lets stop thinking about the fish because they are gone.

1. Good move by increasing maximum tables.

2. Bad move not to implement happy hour bonus VPP for dead hours.

3. Stars dont be greedy. Dont think about how to make extra 1 dollar for 20 days think about how to make extra 25c for 200 days. Stop thinking short term profit.

4. Your affiliate program sucks. You need to make your affiliate program much more profitable for affiliates so that new players are coming in.

5. Your tournaments, and no limit games are fine. Healthy supply of fish and healthy supply of game selection. Your in trouble in the limit department. 5 pros in every 6 max table now. and 8 pros in every 10 player table. Average flop seen percentage on a 6 max table is at 22%, there are sites where the full ring games average 28% flops seens percentage. Meaning your marketing teams needs to find a way to target limit holdem players to the site.

A. More multi table limit tournaments
B. Target specific marketing.
c. Higher bonuses for limit playing.
d. I wouldnt be totally angry for BBJ to be added in limit games.

Limit games absoloutly cannot get any worse than they are right now.


For now every person I meet at the local B n M have completely quit playing online poker. Stating these reasons

1. Its a folding marathon, Ive never seen so much folding in my life.

2. Sites are rigged.

3. Cant get money out.

4. Borring tables, no action. All "house" players on every table

5. They can see your cards and set you up to lose.



If pokerstars would take the partypoker approach to marketing then we can go back to the good ol days of poker. Pokerstars and FTP i believer are responcible for the decline of online poker with their greedy, cheap, and just plain non effective approaches on marketing.


Partypoker use to pay affiliates 100 dollars for each new depositing player, with bonuses. These were no points required, so an affiliate could just transfer 50 dollars to a friend for free and get 100 dollars for them. Sounds like easy money doesnt it ? Well believe it or not this lead to the huge growth of partypoker. With over 100 affiliates averaging more than 300 new players per month this kept the flow of fish constant.

What does pokerstars do with marketing money ? Shoot a 45 second commercial with Joseph Hashem shooting a basketball like a girl. Yes that will bring in a lot of players. On top of that the TV ads only bring in these players to the play money site with no real reason for these players to deposit. A whopping 50 dollar sign up bonus ?

Who the hell is in charge of running things over there /?

It is very simple to see what has worked before, just implement the same type of advertising techniques as partypoker did and it will all be better. Please stop these stupid Hashem and moneymaker negranu and moronic wastes of money on TV ads which only attract play money players when you can directly attract a real money player through a solid affiliate program, where everyone will be telling their friends to sign up because they will be paid.


Just out of curiousity I wonder how many active affiliates there are for stars as opposed to how many active affiliates there was for party before the UIEGA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well played.

They recently upped the price of a bunch of FPP items, though we still get the same amount of FPPs per hand, etc, etc.

[aoFrantic]

Yes, while we would all love a little bit more bonus cash to be greedy, to be more profitable in the long term as players and for Stars as a site, new players, especially fish are needed. I'd work on this before anything.

[pattay]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you out of touch with the real world, which seems about 90% of people in this thread. The online poker community is losing more and more players by the day. The sites are looking for more ways to profit more from the players who play the most and will continue to play. So lets stop thinking about the fish because they are gone.

1. Good move by increasing maximum tables.

2. Bad move not to implement happy hour bonus VPP for dead hours.

3. Stars dont be greedy. Dont think about how to make extra 1 dollar for 20 days think about how to make extra 25c for 200 days. Stop thinking short term profit.

4. Your affiliate program sucks. You need to make your affiliate program much more profitable for affiliates so that new players are coming in.

5. Your tournaments, and no limit games are fine. Healthy supply of fish and healthy supply of game selection. Your in trouble in the limit department. 5 pros in every 6 max table now. and 8 pros in every 10 player table. Average flop seen percentage on a 6 max table is at 22%, there are sites where the full ring games average 28% flops seens percentage. Meaning your marketing teams needs to find a way to target limit holdem players to the site.

A. More multi table limit tournaments
B. Target specific marketing.
c. Higher bonuses for limit playing.
d. I wouldnt be totally angry for BBJ to be added in limit games.

Limit games absoloutly cannot get any worse than they are right now.


For now every person I meet at the local B n M have completely quit playing online poker. Stating these reasons

1. Its a folding marathon, Ive never seen so much folding in my life.

2. Sites are rigged.

3. Cant get money out.

4. Borring tables, no action. All "house" players on every table

5. They can see your cards and set you up to lose.



If pokerstars would take the partypoker approach to marketing then we can go back to the good ol days of poker. Pokerstars and FTP i believer are responcible for the decline of online poker with their greedy, cheap, and just plain non effective approaches on marketing.


Partypoker use to pay affiliates 100 dollars for each new depositing player, with bonuses. These were no points required, so an affiliate could just transfer 50 dollars to a friend for free and get 100 dollars for them. Sounds like easy money doesnt it ? Well believe it or not this lead to the huge growth of partypoker. With over 100 affiliates averaging more than 300 new players per month this kept the flow of fish constant.

What does pokerstars do with marketing money ? Shoot a 45 second commercial with Joseph Hashem shooting a basketball like a girl. Yes that will bring in a lot of players. On top of that the TV ads only bring in these players to the play money site with no real reason for these players to deposit. A whopping 50 dollar sign up bonus ?

Who the hell is in charge of running things over there /?

It is very simple to see what has worked before, just implement the same type of advertising techniques as partypoker did and it will all be better. Please stop these stupid Hashem and moneymaker negranu and moronic wastes of money on TV ads which only attract play money players when you can directly attract a real money player through a solid affiliate program, where everyone will be telling their friends to sign up because they will be paid.


Just out of curiousity I wonder how many active affiliates there are for stars as opposed to how many active affiliates there was for party before the UIEGA.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you out of touch with the real world,

[/ QUOTE ]


BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!

[Scottyy]

-------Thats like saying that because a bar is already popular at 4-6PM they shouldn't look into having a happy hour.

If the bar is already full, why not have happy hour 4PM-11PM or 9PM-11PM?

[Maurice]

My first response was way too long, so I'll start over from scratch.

Online Pro, after reading your comments, it comes off to me (and you can disagree) that you are a bit bitter that you can't play on Party Poker anymore.

The games are tougher now, and will continue to get tougher. The reason isn't because of Full Tilt or Pokerstars poor marketing efforts like you suggested. That comment, among many other in your diatribe against Pokerstars, clearly shows that you have forgotten one major point. There is so much more information, in terms of books, message boards, training sites and even to a lesser extent TV, where new and existing players can improve their poker skills at a faster rate than ever before. Stars and Full Tilt's poor marketing didn't cause this to happen. People like playing poker and they were interested in getting better; thus the market was created for people to write books about poker and to train people how to play poker.

You write " If pokerstars would take the partypoker approach to marketing then we can go back to the good ol days of poker."

I hate to break it to you, but those days are over. I can see poker getting more difficult before it gets more easier. What took me 2 years to learn in poker, today, people can learn in under a month because of books, 2+2 type sites, and online training sites.

If you want softer games, and that's pretty apparent after reading your spiel. Then maybe you should consider moving to a different online poker room, with rakeback and better bonus offers then Pokerstars currently offers. I hear there are some softer sites out there.

Pokerstars appears to have a overall corporate marketing strategy to expand into every part of the world. Look @ their Pokerstars team, they have players from all around the world. The inroads they have made in Europe have been huge recently, and I see a ton more players online from Europe, especially from France and Germany. In addition, they have increased the player pool out of Australia, and now with their APPT (Asian Poker Tour) events, they are looking @ expanding into the Asian Market in a big way. And that my friend, should help in adding more new players to online poker, and most new players are awful. I think Stars is doing a very solid job attracting new players to the game.

The gist is that your not happy Pokerstars is a more difficult website to play on than Party Poker, and you blame their poor marketing efforts for this. Sorry if Pokerstars doesn't hand out free monies like Party did. But back in the day, when online poker was new, Party had to do whatever it could to attract people to their website. But now that poker is more popular and more mainstream, excessive bonus offers aren't necessary for certain poker rooms. One of those currently being Pokerstars since they are the market leader @ the moment. The advantage they have is they are well known with the most players online, and that helps in their recruitment effort of online players. Unlike say some Prima skins where they offer crazy 60% rakeback and bonus offers because they are desperately trying to build a client base because they have 3,000 players @ peak hours. Pokerstars is already beyond that phase of only having 3,000 players @ peak hours. Now, lets say their growth of new players slows in the near future. Then yes,you may be on to something and maybe they will look into increasing their 1st time deposit bonus, or maybe offering some better incentives for affiliates. But for right now, considering how they are the #1 site, I think they enjoy the current marketing strategy that they have in place.

Look @ the bright side. Pokerstars may have something up their sleeve if US legislation is changed and it makes it easier to deposit to online gaming accounts in the next 6 months. (The 6 month figure was quoted from Barry Greenstein who is cautiously optimistic about the future of poker in the US) If it does change, then maybe Stars will roll out a nice $500 Deposit Bonus, in addition to $25 or $50 referral bonuses to new players. It seems as if more bad then good players stopped playing after this legislation. So maybe you can be optimistic that there may be a short period of time where the games get temporarily softer. And also, if legislation gets reversed, then maybe Party enters back into the US market. But the reality is, the games are going to get tougher and tougher even if you are constantly working on trying to improve your game. And the reason for that sure as heck isn't Stars and Full Tilt's marketing efforts.

Man, this is way too long again. I pity the fool who read after the 1st paragraph. I'm not rewriting again even though it's pretty unorganized thought. It's really late, so I may have written something that is completely silly but oh well.

[Maurice]

[ QUOTE ]
Crazy idea question

If we had bonus VPP tables, would you play them? Example 4-8 limit/nl tables where the top rake taken was $3.50. $3.50 drop would equal 3 VPPs.vScotty

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So, lets say I play 10,000 hands @ max rake. $3 gets me 2 points. So $30,000 in rake gets 20,000 points.

New table. 10,000 hands @ max rake of $3.50. $3.50 gets me 3 points. $35,000 in rake gets me 30,000 points.

Hmm, a point for every $1.16 ($3.50/3) in rake vs $1.50 ($3/2.)

I'll take 30,000 points with $35,000 rake paid vs $30,000 rake paid and only 20,000 points.

Although I'd prefer if rake was $2, 2 points. $3, 3 points, instead of $3.50 for 3 points. But whatever. Sounds interesting.

[steel108]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One day a week(month?) Pokerstars should say that they will be having a double VPP day. But dont tell anyone that day and then everyone will play a lot that whole week. Pokerstars will get a lot of rake and on the day after the double VPP day a lot of players will wake up to a nice surprise. eh?

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hahaha, that would be brilliant. I doubt they do that tho

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I don't play on Stars, but this is actually a VERY good idea. Once a month, they run this promotion without notifying the players. The regulars will play more each day so they don't miss the opportunity. Seems like a great spot for Stars. I'm thinking about switching from Tilt to Stars in January when I get back from Europe and I would love this.