10/20 - AA - turn pairs Q; ABC player donks

[Hoi Polloi]

Doyle's Room 10/20 Limit Hold'em (6-max)

SB plays a solid but passive game. Thinks, can raise pre-flop and fold flop, doesn't make moves, probably somewhere around breakeven +/-.

I'm running bad (what else is new) but have shown down strong hands. I've folded a few hands I raised pre-flop on the flop. I've checked behind UI OCs on the turn.

I raise AA in CO after 2 limpers. SB calls and BB calls as do the limpers.

Flop - 5 handed (10 SB) Q52 rainbow
Checked to me, I bet and am called by SB and 1 limper.

Turn - 3 handed (8BB) - Q completes rainbow.
SB bets, limper folds, I fold.

Thoughts?

[Rubeskies]

Nope

[hedgetop]

unreal, your hand is massive here

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
unreal, your hand is massive here

[/ QUOTE ]

I have two pair. I've been aggressive through out the hand and cautious player bets out on a paired board. Certainly there's some chance he's holding a Q.

[Ray Of Light]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unreal, your hand is massive here

[/ QUOTE ]

I have two pair. I've been aggressive through out the hand and cautious player bets out on a paired board. Certainly there's some chance he's holding a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]


But in a pot that big, you should be looking for reasons to call with your top two pair.

The correct question here instead would be... 'what are the chances that he is not holding a Q?'

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct question here instead would be... 'what are the chances that he is not holding a Q?'

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Based on my read, I thought the chances were small. But this is may be an argument about general strategy vs. the read I made at the time. If so, it's rather pointless.

In your view, is there no read that would make this fold correct?

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, bad fold; or Nope, no thoughts, good fold; or Nope, no thoughts--full stop.

[Rubeskies]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nope

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, bad fold; or Nope, no thoughts, good fold; or Nope, no thoughts--full stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the blunt reply but I was trying to express how bad the fold was.

Basically you can't fold here for many reasons.

1.) First and foremost, the pot is now 9BBs after his bet. So, assuming he bets the river, you only have to be correct to call this down 1 in 5. (2BBs to win 10).

His hand range is still much wider than you think. I've seen players meeting this description betting almost any pocket pair in this situation including a slowplayed KK. I see them make this move all the time with middling pairs they are too scared to play hard on the flop or before the flop like 77 and even JJ. I've also seen this done with AK believe it or not. It isn't a move, he just thinks he's ahead.

It also could be a missed hand. You said it yourself that you've folded hands you've raised preflop. The turn donk is the most common "bluff" from a player like this. This is online 10/20, even this sort of player donk bluffs from time to time on a scare card.

2) If you start folding in these situations with your good hands, it means you are with your A high hands as well and people, maybe not him, but other players are going to take notice and start taking shots at you. Folding here, even if it is even EV, or slightly -EV (which it isn't) might still be bad for metagame purposes.

And dude, if your WTSD is 45, WTF man. Mine is 38 and I think this fold is bad. Are you like a 19/14/1.5 type dude?

[danzasmack]

Hoi,

Your original post basically asks - "when a solid, passive player donks this turn should I be folding AA"

2+2 answer = NO

Then you add that basically your read is that he has a Q too often for this to be a call down (if this is false then you should not be defending your fold). Then, this post is no value added. i have a played a lot of hands where if i posted them they would be frowned upon but "i had a read" and i called with Q hi, or I bluff c.r'd a river. That's my read. I have 100% confidence in it. So why post the hand?

If you didn't know what to do in this hand, then you wouldn't have the read you had. In a sense, this post is you saying "i am good at poker". I know that sounds derogatory (spelling) but it's not in any way. I'm just trying to explain why the forum has reacted to your post the way it did.

[Hoi Polloi]

That's fair. I have been too defensive.

Thanks for the effort to explain this thoughtfully.