Two 1/2PLO Folds i'm not 100% sure about

[TwistedEcho]

Been playing a fair bit of omaha on stars recently, still not entirely sure what im doing in some spots, are these standard folds or can i herocall either?

Hand One

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) TwistedEcho is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, TwistedEcho calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($10, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho bets $9.5</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($29, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho bets $24</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($77, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho bets $65</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $130</font>, TwistedEcho folds.
Uncalled bets: $65 returned to UTG+1.

Results:
Final pot: $207




Hand Two

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) TwistedEcho is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho raises to $7</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($23, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho bets $18</font>, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($59, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">TwistedEcho bets $57</font>, SB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($173, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB is all-in $159.1</font>, TwistedEcho folds.
Uncalled bets: $159.1 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $173

[CrushinFelt]

I'm checking behind on that river in hand 1 majority of the time unless the guy is a real calling station. As played I probably fold because for him to be bluffing here would be retarded.

Sadly yes that is probably a fold in hand 2 though I'd have played it the same.

[Hockey Hands]

They both look like folds. The first hand is a marginal fold though. I would probably call a loose opponent. Second one is easy fold. On the first hand I would check/call the river instead of betting out.

[TwistedEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
On the first hand I would check/call the river instead of betting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to checkcall when i'm button.

[TwistedEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm checking behind on that river in hand 1 majority of the time

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah but do people really check all 3 streets with the nuts? Or do you just think most of his range is draws that aren't calling now so there isn't much value in betting?

TBH i didn't really think about it and just bet since i couldnt imagine him ever having a straight having checked every street, and then when he check minraised i had to resist the urge to call just out of curiousity.

[Hattifnatt]

I would probably bet somewhat less in hand 1, $55 or so, rest is fine in both hands imo.

[CrushinFelt]

Yes people check all three streets with the nuts when they don't have a redraw (most would c/r the turn rather than c/c but this line isn't too uncommon).

More to the point is that you're probably not getting 3 streets of value from a lower set (the most likely hand to pay you off), and the rest of their range is big draws that missed and two-pair + FD hands. That part of their range is not calling a 3rd bet in an unraised pot enough to warrant betting here.

Finally, the min-raise on the river can absolutely not be a bluff. It's an unraised pot and you've hammered all three streets. There's no way they expect you to fold to a min raise.

You're right that the line is uncommon for the nuts, but the river min-raise is even less common as a bluff (especially in an unraised pot).