50 nl JJ in awkward spot

laser16 · #1 01-03-2007, 12:07 AM

Both the btn and sb were aggro and I thought JJ was probably ahead but only slightly and I would most likely not extract much postlfop when I dont need to improve to win. So a pretty marginal spot how should I handle this especially pf.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($39)
Button ($48.50)
SB ($95.95)
Hero ($51.85)
UTG ($43.60)
MP ($17.15)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises to $2, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $5.50, Button calls $4.

Flop: ($18) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($18) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $13, Hero calls $13, Button folds.

River: ($44) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $44

_TKO_ · #2 01-03-2007, 12:10 AM

With a raise and a re-raiser preflop, I think you would general want to play this for set value only. Where did you intend to cut off the action?

laser16 · #3 01-03-2007, 12:27 AM

My post got messed up somehow but I fixed it. Anyways I didnt have a specific plan for the hand but figured if I was ahead I would likely only be able to win 1 bet without a set. If I should only be playing for set value here though shouldnt I fold pf? I cant see that im getting the implied odds to call of 12% of my stack for set value.

_TKO_ · #4 01-03-2007, 12:30 AM

Well, my first impression was to fold preflop, but it intuitively seemed terrible. I guess some percentage of the time, you can play this for pair value...

The hand as played looks fine.

Minnie Man · #5 01-03-2007, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, my first impression was to fold preflop, but it intuitively seemed terrible. I guess some percentage of the time, you can play this for pair value...

The hand as played looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is either a fold PF or a 3 bet PF to take the pot then or at least get heads up. You don't want to see a flop because a bigger card will flop....hmmm...don't know the %, but lots of times. I would guess around 50% time. Any math wizards around? I think it is a fold PF.

KEW · #6 01-03-2007, 12:46 AM

4 bet or fold..I could see calling for set value vs 2 villains with 100BB stacks if you are closing the action..If C/O 4 bets you are in an even tougher spot..

laser16 · #7 01-03-2007, 01:11 AM

If btn 4bets I would turbo muck this. I thought I should call here since it was btn opening and sb 3betting I would fold for sure if sb was 3betting a different position. I cant see 4betting here being very good since if I get called im almost always a 4:1 dog. Also JJ flops an overpair or set ~50% of the time. So is the consensus fold>4bet>call or???

KEW · #8 01-03-2007, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If btn 4bets I would turbo muck this. I thought I should call here since it was btn opening and sb 3betting I would fold for sure if sb was 3betting a different position. I cant see 4betting here being very good since if I get called im almost always a 4:1 dog. Also JJ flops an overpair or set ~50% of the time. So is the consensus fold>4bet>call or???

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether I 4 bet or fold would be based on my read of both villains..The more aggressive the more likely I am to push..I think your 50% number is about right..IF we assume CO calls and the flop come 9 or T high and SB bets what are you going to do?? What if he checks??? What if you bet CO and/or SB call..Playing JJ post flop in a RRed three way pot will be very difficult especialy since you are sandwiched in the middle of the 3 better and the orginal raiser..You will often find yourself either losing your stack or not picking up any additional bets post flop..You will also fold the best hand often enough when SB C-bets whether he hit the flop or not..Set value of mid and small pairs go down in a RRed pot as it increases the danger of a set over set hand should an A or K or Q flop..The RR also greatly cuts down on your implied odds..Add to that the possiblity of CO repopping it I can't see a call be profitable sandwhiched in the middle..