WSOP Mixed Holdem 5k event limit hand

[Ian J]

Opponent is Devon Miller. He is a very very good tricky aggressive young live pro. We are playing 400/800 limit w/ about 17k in our stacks. The table is 9 handed.

Devon raises UTG+1 and I 3 bet two spots later w/ black QQ. Everyone goes out and he calls.

Flop Jd 7d 6c he check calls.

Turn 5d He leads and I thoughtlessly call trying to make it apparent that I'm not thrilled about my hand.

The river is the 2c, he checkraises me and I 3 bet him for value.

[Michael Davis]

On first glance looks very bad?

Seriously, you have the worst hand you could be repping. It's probably worse than any hand you should be. I don't see any non-idiot folding a better hand and big deal, maybe you get a call from AJ. He shouldn't have AJ if he's good because c/r the river with that is just awful and you lose a good deal of money on the second bet that goes in.

Once you call the turn you don't even have a river raise if he bets again IMO.

-Michael

[stinkypete]

nice hand.

[DpR]

3 bet looks pretty spewey to me. If you were good, he did something really dumb - c/r any 1 pair on the river is pretty bad for him to do IMO. Calling a three bet with it is even worse.

[PokerBob]

does he really call here with anything worse?

[J_V]

It seems like you go way out of your way to be tricky in all the hands you post - if thats not just a posting bias, that could be a problem. I run into that problem sometimes, when I feel like the better players are getting away from me when they are behind. But, ideally you want to be able to play your big hands very straightforwardly, and balance that by playing other not so good hands that way as well - as opposed to by playing your best hands very trickily.

The turn looks like a raise all day.

I hate the river. I would just call the check-raise. You get 4-bet more often than you get paid off.

His line doesn't seem like a jack very often.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like you go way out of your way to be tricky in all the hands you post - if thats not just a posting bias, that could be a problem. I run into that problem sometimes, when I feel like the better players are getting away from me when they are behind. But, ideally you want to be able to play your big hands very straightforwardly, and balance that by playing other not so good hands that way as well - as opposed to by playing your best hands very trickily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I think people who tend to get tricky with their big hands get this sort of false positive feedback because -- hey, they have a big hand, and when you have a big hand, you're usually apt to win a nice pot however you play it. So they develop a Pavlovian association between fancy play and success. What they may not realize is that they'd often win slightly bigger pots if they played their hands in a normal way.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I think people who tend to get tricky with their big hands get this sort of false positive feedback because -- hey, they have a big hand, and when you have a big hand, you're usually apt to win a nice pot however you play it. So they develop a Pavlovian association between fancy play and success. What they may not realize is that they'd often win slightly bigger pots if they played their hands in a normal way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I definitely agree. It's really hard to differentiate between big pots and big pot + .5 bets on average, and it's easy to not care when you are raking the chips.


I find myself falling into the trap where I have a tight image and I know raising will cause my opponent to play correctly and fold his worse hand, so I figure in a vacuum getting cute is best, but this really messes up your meta-game long-term.

[Ian J]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like you go way out of your way to be tricky in all the hands you post - if thats not just a posting bias, that could be a problem. I run into that problem sometimes, when I feel like the better players are getting away from me when they are behind. But, ideally you want to be able to play your big hands very straightforwardly, and balance that by playing other not so good hands that way as well - as opposed to by playing your best hands very trickily.



[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling/am hoping that it's mostly posting bias. I'm really posting hands that I played in a very interesting manner and not stuff like I had AA and 3 bet a raise and then put in a bunch of action and won. It is however possible that I go out of my way to be a bit tricky to a fault.

The reason I try to play hands this way is because I would prefer that when I play/am going to play with someone a lot at high limits it is best for me if they are confused by my actions and uncertain of how they should respond. Doing this I think can really make you more difficult to read and I believe that's a big deal in high limit live games where people value reads so much. This is really just my take on it and I haven't discussed it much with anyone. So if I'm way off, it wouldn't surprise me.

For instance, I don't remember if I stated it in my post or not, but I called Devin's turn bet in a manner that I would play the naked Ad on purpose. I know he'll be reading my actions and not just my line. My plan was to raise his river bet because it felt like his flop/turn line was screaming jack to me. What else would he play that way?

I am beginning to agree that my river 3 bet is not good. However, I still hold to raising the river if he bets.

Appreciate everyone's input.

[DpR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems like you go way out of your way to be tricky in all the hands you post - if thats not just a posting bias, that could be a problem. I run into that problem sometimes, when I feel like the better players are getting away from me when they are behind. But, ideally you want to be able to play your big hands very straightforwardly, and balance that by playing other not so good hands that way as well - as opposed to by playing your best hands very trickily.



[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling/am hoping that it's mostly posting bias. I'm really posting hands that I played in a very interesting manner and not stuff like I had AA and 3 bet a raise and then put in a bunch of action and won. It is however possible that I go out of my way to be a bit tricky to a fault.

The reason I try to play hands this way is because I would prefer that when I play/am going to play with someone a lot at high limits it is best for me if they are confused by my actions and uncertain of how they should respond. Doing this I think can really make you more difficult to read and I believe that's a big deal in high limit live games where people value reads so much. This is really just my take on it and I haven't discussed it much with anyone. So if I'm way off, it wouldn't surprise me.

For instance, I don't remember if I stated it in my post or not, but I called Devin's turn bet in a manner that I would play the naked Ad on purpose. I know he'll be reading my actions and not just my line. My plan was to raise his river bet because it felt like his flop/turn line was screaming jack to me. What else would he play that way?

I am beginning to agree that my river 3 bet is not good. However, I still hold to raising the river if he bets.

Appreciate everyone's input.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that had he bet the river a raise is clearly in order. Obv, a river lead is wildly different frmo the c/r here.