5/10nl live skill level is to _______ online

[ScoobyDooo]

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Here's the thing: online poker isn't real poker. It's like miniature golf compared to real golf: it has skills, but not the full range of skills. Which means all these guys talking about how good they are at mini-golf, when they have to play the whole game, get spanked. They especially embarrass themselves when they say they've played more hands of poker/rounds of golf than Doyle Brunson/Tiger Woods.

People play looser live because games are slower, because they aren't 10-tabling, so waiting for good cards is harder, sure, but also because everyone else is playing looser in real games, so playing loose yourself makes more sense, and, most importantly, because you have the ability to read your opponents. I know many online players suffer the delusion that they can read their opponents (some roulette players think they can tell which numbers are coming up), but what you can do online pales in comparison to the real thing.

Online poker is for anti-social or socially graceless stay-at-home geeks for whom a hand job from an average looking girl is a life-highlight. These are guys who think everyone smells bad and dresses poorly and is boring and weird (and all the other comments online players make about why they don't want to be around other humans). Don't be one of them. The map is not the territory; porn isn't sex; your monitor is not the world.

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god you're a [censored] moron.

just kill yourself right now. I don't care how you do it.

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yeah this is right actually. i think a lot of the better pros prefer to play online because its more convenient and they can achieve a much higher hourly rate which means they dont have put in quite as many hours at the table which means their overall quality of life can be much higher.

not sure though... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ScoobyDooo]

this thread really wasnt intended to make fun of live poker at all. It was just an honest question...everyone knows the quality of play is much higher online, i was just looking for some input on exactly how great this difference is

[Jack_Burton]

I know at least 1/2 dozen winning MSNLers who beat 2/4 thru 10/20NL online at over 4ptb/100 that can't beat 5/10NL live or 10/20NL live for that matter so...

everyone's one sided rigid worldview that X stakes online = Y stakes live needs to realize its not that simple.

I personally think that 5/10NL falls somewhere around 2/4NL online. Depending on table dynamics, tilting, stacks the play could be as weak as 1/2NL online or as good as 3/6NL online.

I would say however that live players are not nearly as tricky (floats, squeezes, etc...) as online players and while some might be laggy pre-flop and on the flop, they also seem to play in a fashion where hand reading is very simple in nature when it comes to later streets.

[Percula]

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this thread really wasnt intended to make fun of live poker at all. It was just an honest question...everyone knows the quality of play is much higher online, i was just looking for some input on exactly how great this difference is

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Interesting exchange between a couple of pro's in the 5/10 game at the Wynn this weekend.

Older pro (even though he says he only plays 'for fun'): I stopped playing online.

Young pro: Why?

Older Pro: Because they are too good at this level and above.

Younger Pro (and others chime in too): Got to agree with you there.

[ScoobyDooo]

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I know at least 1/2 dozen winning MSNLers who beat 2/4 thru 10/20NL online at over 4ptb/100 that can't beat 5/10NL live or 10/20NL live for that matter so...

everyone's one sided rigid worldview that X stakes online = Y stakes live needs to realize its not that simple.

I personally think that 5/10NL falls somewhere around 2/4NL online. Depending on table dynamics, tilting, stacks the play could be as weak as 1/2NL online or as good as 3/6NL online.

I would say however that live players are not nearly as tricky (floats, squeezes, etc...) as online players and while some might be laggy pre-flop and on the flop, they also seem to play in a fashion where hand reading is very simple in nature when it comes to later streets.

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wow thats pretty amazing. unless these guys just have no patience for live play at all or if they seriously give off the biggest tells ever im not sure why this would be. perhaps its a sample size issue? but you could very well be right. maybe theres some difference between the two that complicates the question much more than most ppl give it credit for. but if someones beating 2/4-5/10nl online for 4ptbb/100 i doubt they seriously care about not having good results in live play because theyre probably earning a higher hourly rate than can be achieved even at 10/25nl live. or dare i say even 25/50 (too lazy to do the math)

[Mandor_TFL]

Since Live play is significantly different than online I would not be surprised if even some very good online players had initial trouble. Having 5 or 6 people all call a 6BB raise PF is unheard of at the higher stakes online, so if they did not adjust to how to best exploit such tendencies and to avoid the pitfalls these situations create I can see how they would have problems.


That being said it should be easy enough to adjust to and exploit so long as the player has patience. Oh and your 5/10NL game is going to vary wildly based upon where you play and when you play. Comparing 5/10NL at 2 p.m. on a Tuesday to 5/10NL at 2 a.m. Saturday morning is like comparing strawberries and lemons. Both my be fruits but one is sweet and yummy and the other is bitter and sucky.

[FireStorm]

Have to agree with the guy who said that online poker is for the anti-social. In all honesty, I doubt many of the multitabling nits on this site who makes livings on Stars would have an idea what to do with an attractive girl if she came with an instruction manual. I wouldn't reduce my life to sitting in my house 50 hours a week clicking a mouse, regardless of the money involved. Man has a point. I do however disagree with him about it being "real" poker. It's very real and does in fact have skilled players.

To those using the 10x rule, don't be idiots. If this were even remotely true, more of you online players would get up from the $11/hour gigs you have at the Party 1/2 NL tables and try out crushing a live 5/10 game as you claim is so easy to do.

[FireStorm]

Just noticed the above, where Mandor mentions the aspect of 5-6 players in raised pots preflop in live play, which never happens online. I've seen primarily online players attempt to react to this, and it's like watching a horror movie. You Stars 19/13's realize that leading into five people live with black AA and a board of 7h-6h-5c is like standing in the middle of the highway, right?

[donkdonk123]

this question depends purely on where u play and at what time, there are plenty of live casinos globally where the higher no limit games are of an equal standard to the equivalent stake games online.
Having said that i do believe that people generally do put money in in live games in weaker spots, due a number of factors, number one imo being the fact that live is so slow so the temptation to play that K9 suited in early position, after 2 hours of looking down at 3 8 offsuit, is very real. Online multitabling the patience factor is almost erased, by the sheer volume of hands we can play.
Im pretty sure however that an online pro winning at say a 5 10 no limit 6 max game, would undoubtedly need months of practice in live full ring games before he became a big winner. As the skills required from live to multi tabling online are extremely different.

[soah]

A bad game of 5/10 at the Bellagio is approximately similar to a juicy 2/4 game on Stars.

When you start dealing with uncapped games then comparisons become a lot trickier... even the capped games don't correlate directly because the live games often have a much wider difference between the best and worst players at the table. Live players are much more likely to be limited by bankroll or game availability (this depends on where you're playing, obviously) than online players which means you sometimes get good players playing in a game they can really crush, whereas online those players can just move up. Also, for various reasons you don't get many completely clueless people playing online at reasonable stakes and when those guys do show up, they go broke real fast. In a casino it's a lot easier for someone with minimal experience to buy in at a midstakes game and it might take them all day to go through a couple buy-ins.

Quite honestly, the level of play live is simply appalling. I've played full sessions of 5/10 where it was never once folded around to the blinds, etc.