Bankrolling 17 year old kid

[agoldenbear]

sounds like an intelligent, driven, and competitive kid; if he studies poker with the same tenacity that he does his schoolwork and extracurricular activities, he should be able to figure out NLHE pretty well within a year or so.

Like so many other posters, I recommend you direct him to the cash side of things. Tournies are great, but a run of bad luck is highly underscored by the survival nature of the tournament payout structure. In cash games an edge is an edge, so you don't have to play each hand with the larger concerns of your tournament equity affecting every decision. Just based on your description, this kid seems to have a lot of the characteristics that make for solid advancement in poker.

Personally, I would suggest the following books, to be read in order.

Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book"

Angel Largay's "No-limit Texas Hold 'Em: A Complete Course"

Sklansky's "No-limit Hold Em; Theory and Practice"

Flynn & Mehta's "Professional No Limit Hold Em: Vol. 1"

Guerrera's "Killer Poker By the Numbers" (esp. if his math aptitude is above average)

For tournaments:
"Harrington on Hold em" is extremely valuable and readable
"The Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide" is deep, unique and superb
"Sit and Go Strategy" - Moshman - the only good text on the subject
"Kill Everyone" - Nelson, Rodman, Streib... not yet released but I expect it to be quite good, although it may rehash existing concepts

For limit and general poker:
"Theory of Poker" - Sklansky
"Real Poker II: The play of hands" - Roy Cooke
"Winning in tough hold em games" - Stox
"Weighing the Odds in Hold Em Poker" - Yao

Hope this helps.

[daveT]

Does your kid play poker now?

What is he into?

I told one person a while ago, that if he is going to start into poker, play one day of each form of poker (play money pref, but whatever), decide what he likes best, then study the living S out of that game. There is no reason for him to focus on so many games from the get-go. Don't be fooled by "SNG": HU is very different than 9-handed.

Every one on this site has a preferred game. The reasons we each like our individual game is not because it is the first one, but because it is what we are comfortable doing. I have different reasons for playing HUSNGs than the other posters on the forum, and I think many people agree that 9-handed SNGs are an insane way to try and make an income.

It sounds to me like you are asking your kid to attempt different options for making a living. I didn't know that Walgreens paid this much, but I guess that is because you know the manager. I don't see why he can't have the job and also play poker. Seriously, his next job offer is going to be $7 an hour max if he has to find it himself.

Did you ever consider that he won't like to play poker?

Having a job is good too, because it is a good experience for the kid. He isn't going to be friends with his high-school crop for more than 3 years (LOL), and meeting new people would do him good. I really think you are enforcing the idea that it is better to work on his own than to get a "real" job. There are pros and cons to both. I don't see how working on his own at 18 is going to turn out better. Ultimately, I think you should be attempting to nurture both sides of this, and trust him to make the best decisions about weather to work 9-5 or not, about what form of poker to play, and the choice to use his paycheck to refill his playing account.

[Biggy]

Why don't you buy him a cardrunners account as well? Or at least select a few of the better videos available in unl or ssnl. Videos are a pretty good way to learn, might wanna put that into your conditions too.

[Point Point]

Can you name specific no limit holdem video titles? No abbreviations if possible. Thanks.

[Biggy]

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Can you name specific no limit holdem video titles? No abbreviations if possible. Thanks.

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http://www.roulettenburg.com/poker/videos.html

[stigmata]

the kid sounds like he doesnt need you, and is smart enough to know it

[Point Point]

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the kid sounds like he doesnt need you, and is smart enough to know it

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This is exactly the objective behind this project. To get him to a level where he won't need me. What I failed to mention is that this poker thing is just part of a bigger project that hopefully would make him totally independent and successful. Here are the books that I had him read during his senior year and during the summer vacation (I paid him 30 bucks per book on top of his allowance and I believe him that his comprehension rate is at least 90%):

Persuasion:

Maximum Influence by Mortensen

One Minute Salesperson by Johnson

Personal finance:

The Wealthy Barber by Chilton

Young Fabulous and Broke by Suze Orman (video version)

Secrets of the Millionaire Mind by T. Harv Ecker

The 21 Secrets of Self Made Millionaires by Brian Tracy

Entrepreneurship:

E-Myth Revisited by Gerber

Go It Alone by Judson

Cashflow Quadrant by Kiyosaki

Multiple Streams of Income by Robert Allen

Personal Effectiveness:

Focal Point by Brian Tracy

Eat That Frog by Brian Tracy

Self-Help Psychology:

Success Principles by Jack Canfield

Unlimited Power by Anthony Robbins

Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl

Leadership:

One Minute Manager by Blanchard and Johnson

The One Minute Manager Builds a High Performance Team by Blanchard

Who Moved My Cheese by Johnson

Strategy:

The Art of War by Sun Tzu

The Concentrated Essence of Strategy and Tactics by Liddell Hart

Genghis Khan and Sabutai from Great Captains Unveiled (Liddell Hart)

But the reason why this poker project is so important is that it is CLEAR and PRESENT. Most of the above reads would take years to implement while the poker reading and playing project could be implemented as early as next month.Plus, poker can teach him self-discipline, logic, reading situations, the concept of EV, the importance of thinking long term, emotional control, etc.

I thank all of those of you who have given advice. I am definitely adding cash games to his hands on experience pool.The object, really, is to have him have enough knowledge of no limit holdem in all its forms so that if he chooses to, he can integrate poker into his income streams. To make him knowledgeable and competent enough to have poker as a REAL option if he chooses to do so.

As of now, I still have not come up with the proper sequence of books for him to read, and the combination of competitive contexts through which he can learn to apply the knowledge. I'm more confused than ever. So far the first phase looks as follows but it is still not final:

Watch Final Table DVD by Gordon on "beginner's mode", listen to the audio version Little Green Book twice over, then re-watch Final Table DVD but this time on "advanced mode". Finally, have him read the first three chapters of TOP as well as the "Poker and Emotions" section of Inside the Poker Mind.

Second Phase would probably be:

HOH 1, then HOH2, then probably the Largay book.

Third Phase would envolve playing, playing, and playing. Cash games, MTTSNGs, STSNGs (full game), Six handed SNGs, Heads up SNGs. During this stage, he can't decide what to play. I will tell him. Hopefully, you guys can help me decide what competitive contexts and in what order he should play. Cash games first? MTTs second? etc.

The fourth phase would have him exposed to different playing styles: SSII, Making the Final Table, Kill Phil, etc. And general theory books: TOP, NHTP, PNL1.

[phydaux]

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Can you name specific no limit holdem video titles? No abbreviations if possible. Thanks.

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Final Table Poker by Phil Gordon. This video and Little Green Book are Phil's best contributions to the poker community. Those, and all the dot.com millions he's donked off to better players.

He's a good poker player, and his WPT title is ligit, but he really isn't world class.

Also try Rolf Slotboom's cash game videos. Really, any video from www.expertholdem.com is worth the price. Other than those and Phil's, I don't really like poker DVDs, or the DVD format in general.

[jfk]

Three pages of replies and no one has yet suggested that he build his roll and his experience base by playing only freerolls.

I'd love to find an interested, motivated 18 year old whom I could trust to hand over all the freerolls I have no time or not enough incentive to play.

So far, its not clear that the poker playing is the son's idea. Assuming it is, I'd still steer him towards the $11/hour Walgreen's job. After work let him build his roll from scratch via freeroll tournaments and use whatever he earns to finance the poker avenues he decides he wants to explore.

If he really takes off he should be able to finance his own play via his earnings or perhaps at that time his track record of success may better justify and utilize your own cash infusion into HIS bankroll.

Lastly, this really should be his idea to play or you should just leave it alone. There should be about a thousand things more important to an 18 year old kid than sitting around playing cards.