Full Tilt PLO8 - $400...What To Do?

[Omaha8sPoker]

I'll put it to you this way, in buttload of hands I have seen over the past 16 months I have rarely seen somebody lead out stronger on the flop than they do on the turn with a huge hand...It has happened, but it is in a rare circumstance...

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely have the roll to be playing the $400s and have played a decent amount in the $200s in the past...There weren't a lot of regulars on, so I decided to sit down and give it a shot...



[/ QUOTE ]

Ok no problem then. I just saw the "jumping from $.50/$1 to $2/4" and had concerns.



[ QUOTE ]
I know why its a bad play, because the only card I can hit is the 2 to give myself the nuts in any direction...If I hit a club or a broadway card I still just have a drawing hand and it'll be hella expensive to draw to it...And my low wouldn't be to the nuts...

[/ QUOTE ]
fair enough



[ QUOTE ]
I'll put it to you this way, in buttload of hands I have seen over the past 16 months I have rarely seen somebody lead stronger on the flop than they do on the turn with a huge hand...It has happened, but it is in a rare circumstance...


[/ QUOTE ]

By "stronger" I assume you mean a higher percentage of the pot? For one, I don't think that a bigger bet always means more strength. In fact, in some cases its just the opposite: You have such a good hand that you want to make sure you get as many calls as possible(if I had A3 with a set and the flush draw, then I'd definitely be wanting everyone to call here for example). Secondly, just because you look at % of the pot to determine strength of the bet, don't assume that all of your opponents do. Some opponents may simply think of it in terms of $40 vs $16.


I think you're using extreme selective memory when you say you've rarely seen someone do it too. I do it quite often and I've seen a ton of good players do it. The situation in which I do it is this:

I flop two strong draws. Now on the flop, I wouldn't mind getting it all in, nor would I mind taking it down then and there. What I don't want to do is give people a cheap turn. So I'll bet very strong. For example in this hand, if I had A23x with the flush draw I'd do that.

Then on the turn I hit my low draw but still have nothing for high. Now I may either check or bet "weaker". The reasoning is that I still have one nut hand and I may have nut high/nut low on river so I'd like to build the pot a little. I guess checking is an option here, but I don't want to give a free card and I definitely don't want to check and then see the river ruin my low by putting an A or 3 out there.



Or another example in which I'd do this is if, like I said above, I flopped tons of draws, and I hit them on the turn. On the flop I would be betting big for the same reasons I said above. On the turn I'd be betting "weaker" because I'd want callers, and I'd definitely want people with your mindset to come over the top of me if they assumed my bet as weak.

[niss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I elected to just call on the button, thought about raising but figured I didn't want to bloat the pot with this hand preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats a fine play. You'll want to occassionally raise with hands like this just so people can't always put you on A2s, A23, or AA when you raise though. I'd say that I'd call 90-95% of the time here and raise 5-10% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Icy Pots, to each his own I guess ... but I will say that when I played with you (Party I believe) your numbers were way tight and I would never give you any action.

[Mendacious]

Preflop: I call this most of the time, maybe raise it 1/5-1/3 of the time. The eight kinda recks this hand pre-flop for a raise (even though it has suitedness to the ace).

FLOP: I probably fold this a lot of the time, but I don't hate the call because 1) you are on the button, and 2) the flop looks like people are drawing, and I will probably know on the turn where I stand. Not a high percentage play, but a play where I may get the chance to bully people out of the hand.

Turn: I am Pot-reraising here. I have the nut low, and I am pretty sure no-one has a high they are proud of. If someone else has A3 (and only Villian 1 is fairly deep) I think my 8 is out in front of the other A3 for the hi. I think pot-raise wins outright at least 1/3 of the time.
realistically, I think a call here by Villian 1 with practically any high hand is a poor play. (except something like trips with a nut flush re-draw.)

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: I am Pot-reraising here. I have the nut low, and I am pretty sure no-one has a high they are proud of. If someone else has A3 (and only Villian 1 is fairly deep) I think my 8 is out in front of the other A3 for the hi. I think pot-raise wins outright at least 1/3 of the time.
realistically, I think a call here by Villian 1 with practically any high hand is a poor play. (except something like trips with a nut flush re-draw.)

[/ QUOTE ]

i was wondering why no1 had yet recommended this line. i dont see either villian showwing up with much of a high hand here often, at least not 1 they want to get pressured on. and when we do get called by another A3, our 8 is generally good for high (quoting BBP, "dont ever underestimate the value of one pair").

the raise is good all the way around. tho odd in that it almost turns our hand into a bluff about 30% of the time. i just generally take the aggro line and steal the pot here being it seems no1 rly wants it but us.

aggro > passive

[neverforgetlol]

Yeah, on the turn you basically have to decide there is another A3xx with a better high hand out, which is unlikely. A raise will make it difficult for high-only hands to continue.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I elected to just call on the button, thought about raising but figured I didn't want to bloat the pot with this hand preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats a fine play. You'll want to occassionally raise with hands like this just so people can't always put you on A2s, A23, or AA when you raise though. I'd say that I'd call 90-95% of the time here and raise 5-10% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Icy Pots, to each his own I guess ... but I will say that when I played with you (Party I believe) your numbers were way tight and I would never give you any action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, although I will say that I was a complete beginner then(I know, real smart of me to jump into $10/20PL when I'm a beginner, right?) and just a hold em player mostly.

Basically though I don't see a big problem though with some of the better and more astute players not giving you action: You just make money off of bluffing them and then value bet the donks.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
i just generally take the aggro line and steal the pot here being it seems no1 rly wants it but us.

aggro > passive

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have the same mindset as OP regarding the $40 turn bet. Why on earth do you see that as "nobody really wanting it"? That bet could easily be wanting tons of calls. How do you guys play your monsters when you are most likely quartering someone, do you just make huge bets throughout and hope they call? Personally I try to set it up to get the majority of my stack in on the river when they won't realize that I've got them until its too late.

[TomG]

You need to make a play at the pot, IMO. Raising the turn is good because it gives you the ability to...

1) Win the pot outright
2) Promo raise your pair of 8's increasing your chance of getting 3/4'ers from another A3
3) Get it all-in against two high hands

All 3 are possible and all are positive results from raising. There is a benefit to smooth calling the turn to setup a river bluff. The smooth call disguises your hand and keeps the pot small. Then if the board pairs or flushes on the river, you can rep the made hand. This form of a bluff may scare a high hand into folding that would have otherwise called your turn raise, felt committed at the river, and split the pot. This also has the added benefit of allowing you to slam your fist down, yell your favorite expletive, and consider folding if you get counterfeited on the river.

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i just generally take the aggro line and steal the pot here being it seems no1 rly wants it but us.

aggro > passive

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have the same mindset as OP regarding the $40 turn bet. Why on earth do you see that as "nobody really wanting it"? That bet could easily be wanting tons of calls. How do you guys play your monsters when you are most likely quartering someone, do you just make huge bets throughout and hope they call? Personally I try to set it up to get the majority of my stack in on the river when they won't realize that I've got them until its too late.

[/ QUOTE ]

because im generally an aggro box...yes, i Pot/Pot/Pot my monsters as well. and i see the turn as a fairly weak bet (cud just b feeling..i dunno. but i dont feel strength behind it). tho, i think Tom puts it a lil better than i am...his reasonings are mine as well. we really pressure high only hands, we 3/4 an A3 almost always, and there is a decent pot already here for our taking. i see no reason to set up a river bluff in this spot when a raise here will often just finish the hand up.