*Official* Israel/Lebanon thread (politics)

Sniper · #1 08-08-2006, 11:02 PM

OK, after much discussion, we got a green light from DB... the Israel/Lebanon conflict is now open for discussion in TLDR...

Some ground rules...

First, I will quote Mason: "What we will not tolerate are posts designed to foment hate. These include posts, which are sometimes very politely written, that distort facts, create new facts, make references to very bad things that the poster quickly distances himself from but nevertheless leaves the idea out there, and often link to other sites that are clearly hate sites."

Beyond that...

1. All Israel/Lebanon discussion will be contained to this one thread.

2. News items and discussion of current news is appreciated. I'd like to see us focus on the Now and the Future; rather than try to rehash the unchangeable past.

3. Civility and courtesy is the order of the day... if you can't be civil with those who hold views opposed to yours, then simply opt out of participating in this thread.

4. Follow the rules... I have not banned a single non-spammer in a forum I moderate... please don't force me to break my record...

If you have any comments on the rules, make them in ATF or feel free to PM me.

I look forward to well thought out and civil discussion on the very important events playing out now in the middle east and around the world...

Sniper · #2 08-08-2006, 11:10 PM

UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- An Arab League delegation wants the United Nations to include the immediate Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon as part of any deal to end the nearly four-week-old war between Israel and Lebanese-based Hezbollah.

A U.S.-French plan under consideration by the Security Council does not require an immediate Israeli withdrawal, an omission Lebanon's government and Arab League diplomats call unacceptable.

SLP · #3 08-08-2006, 11:11 PM

Israel Targets Any Vehicle in South Lebanon

I don't understand the purpose behind this new policy. Are Hezbollah launching rockets from moving vehicles? I don't believe that Hezbollah have been making regular (if any) use of car bombs. This sounds like an excuse to blow things up.

New001 · #4 08-08-2006, 11:14 PM

Might as well get this started then. First, how do you forsee this possibly ending? I think it's obvious that Hizballah is going to claim victory no matter what the circumstances of Israel's "retreat," so I think there's extra incentive for Israel to finish things as best as they can. Also, I believe that the majority of Israelis still support the fighting, and I can't imagine that stopping as long as rockets continue hitting the ground.

Basically, what incentive does Israel have to leave Lebanon? Are we in for a repeat of last time?

Will this take an international force to end the conflict? I'm not sure I can see any major power getting involved directly in this, but I can certainly see things happen behind the scenes.

New001 · #5 08-08-2006, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Israel Targets Any Vehicle in South Lebanon

I don't understand the purpose behind this new policy. Are Hezbollah launching rockets from moving vehicles? I don't believe that Hezbollah have been making regular (if any) use of car bombs. This sounds like an excuse to blow things up.

[/ QUOTE ]
I imagine that the goal with that is to limit movement of Hizballah and the Lebanese as much as possible to limit arms, manpower, etc.

iron81 · #6 08-08-2006, 11:19 PM

There is no way for Israel to finish things well in Lebanon. Their eventual retreat from Lebanon will be a defeat for them, whether tomorrow or 10 years from now. Israel has no hope of defeating Hezbollah militarily when Hezbollah has such broad support within Lebanon and throughout the Arab world. Indeed, Hezbollah support increases each day that Israeli bombs fall in Lebanon. Israel's best move is to fold: withdraw the troops, make a face saving deal to get its captured troops back and be done with it. International troops might help, but Israeli troops really cant accomplish much militarily in Lebanon because Hezbollah is a guerrilla force on its home territory.

Sniper · #7 08-08-2006, 11:21 PM

The security cabinet is expected on Wednesday morning to approve an expanded ground operation up to and perhaps beyond the Litani River. The IDF offensive would likely increase in scope immediately following the cabinet decision.

In response to UN discussions, Israel has made it clear that it would not accept a call for an immediate withdrawal of IDF troops.

NapHead · #8 08-08-2006, 11:24 PM

What in the world is going on with all the media participating in a propaganda war waged by Hezbollah?

First it was the Reuters photographer who "accidently" cloned smoke trying to clean off dustprints, showing the effects of an Israeli airstrike. Now, the NYT has been outed; one of its own photographers has compiled a photo essay that depicts a man trying to help clear rubble after a bombing and then shows him as a dead victim with his hat held tightly against his body.

NYT outed

Sniper · #9 08-08-2006, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Israel Targets Any Vehicle in South Lebanon

I don't understand the purpose behind this new policy. Are Hezbollah launching rockets from moving vehicles? I don't believe that Hezbollah have been making regular (if any) use of car bombs. This sounds like an excuse to blow things up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read further into the article, you would have found this quote... "A military spokeswoman said the ban did not apply to Red Cross and United Nations relief convoys traveling in coordination with the Israeli army. She said the ban had been imposed in an attempt to choke off supplies to guerrillas who have continued firing rockets into northern Israel."

iron81 · #10 08-09-2006, 12:36 AM

Fortunately for us, Naphead is a conservative and he liked to a conservative website. Otherwise, Mason would have to delete TLDR for links to hate sites. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Unfortunately for the blogger and Nap, they don't know what they are talking about. They talk about a guy wearing a hat in an earlier photo having the same hat in the picture protraying the dead guy. But there is no hat in the picture of the dead guy. And if they are the same person, it is much more likely that the Lebanese tricked the photographer than the photographer being part of some conspiracy. Also, it is possible that the guy was injured during relief efforts: it is very dangerous to be crawling around piles of rubble like that without protective equipment.

To summarize, the NYT is the best journalistic organization in the country, and I would be happy to subscribe if I lived near NY. This blogger needs a little more Thorazine.