Why 3bet? - Page 3

thing85 · #21 10-03-2007, 10:33 AM

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But he's only got a pfr of 12, he probably doesn't steal *too* light. I mean, you may as well 3-bet with 84o since you don't want a showdown and you expect to pick it up preflop or with a c-bet on the flop.

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If you're 3betting down to 84o, you're probably 3betting too often, and a reasonably observant player will probably pick up on this and fold less often.

dirtylobster · #22 10-03-2007, 10:34 AM

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A few months ago I always called, but lost a lot of money, because I had to fold the hand most of the times. The last few weeks I'm experimenting with 3betting and this makes my plays so much easier. A cbet on almost any flop gives me the pot.

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I'd definately 3-bet AJo in the blinds against most villains BTN open. As you said it really sucks to play a hand like AJo OOP, especially if you play it passively and call PF. 3-betting will win you the pot most of the time and when he calls you can narrow down his range pretty good. Also a c-bet will make you take the pot down very often.

scallop · #23 10-03-2007, 10:35 AM

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Yeah but id rather have a standard play that didnt require getting to showdown. Flat calling bloats the pot pf, and increases our chanc of getting to showdown, which I dont think is what AJ wants. Plus we dont get all that much value from a5 on the A92 board.

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Flat calling doesn't bloat the pot, 3-betting does. I don't mind playing poker against a probably bad TAG, he'll in general c-bet and give up if he misses.. and if he has A5 on a A92, we're definitely getting more by playing the hand postflop than just the 4bb he raised preflop if we 3-bet and he folds.

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In the rare occassion that he has ace rag and the flop is a92 rainbow and he makes one pair then yes we might get 2 steets of value from our hand.

If he has KQ, 44, TJs, AQo, 78s and the flop is 953 rainbow we probablly take it down with a continuation bet against all those hands (with the exception of small pp's)

My point is that by calling we are signalling we dont have a great hand, and our opponents are more likely to continue with weaker holdings that might be the best hand atm, and if not are hands that can draw against us or use their position forcing us to hit a hand and make a pair.

If we reraise we are telling our opponent that we have a good hand and he needs better to continue. Thus he is going to value 44 lower on the 952 board when we re-pop it than when the pot is small.

Is this horrible thinking?

corsakh · #24 10-03-2007, 10:37 AM

Ye but he may have PFR of 12 and steal attempt of 30, thats why I asked. If his steal attempt is 12, the only thing you can really do is fold.

thac · #25 10-03-2007, 10:38 AM

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But he's only got a pfr of 12, he probably doesn't steal *too* light. I mean, you may as well 3-bet with 84o since you don't want a showdown and you expect to pick it up preflop or with a c-bet on the flop.

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If you're 3betting down to 84o, you're probably 3betting too often, and a reasonably observant player will probably pick up on this and fold less often.

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Definitely over-killing it but I'm just saying, if we're gonna pick it up with a c-bet almost all of the time as you guys are saying why shouldn't we 3-bet every BTN open with any two cards so we can take it down on the flop?

The guy has 12% pfr, he's not gonna be 30/26 on the BTN. He's not gonna have complete junk, I don't know why you guys are making it out to seem like he's a maniac. AJo just doesn't fare well against most people's 3-bet calling ranges and I think the only things you're folding out when you c-bet a rag flop is AQ and AK. I think you're gonna run into pairs that don't fold way too often.

scallop · #26 10-03-2007, 10:40 AM

To be honest I was replying on the basis that opponent was unknown. If his att to steal is low enough I can fold easily.

dirtylobster · #27 10-03-2007, 10:41 AM

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Ye but he may have PFR of 12 and steal attempt of 30, thats why I asked. If his steal attempt is 12, the only thing you can really do is fold.

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I second this.

thac · #28 10-03-2007, 10:41 AM

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Ye but he may have PFR of 12 and steal attempt of 30, thats why I asked. If his steal attempt is 12, the only thing you can really do is fold.

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Yeah, I agree.. I'll 3-bet a 20/17 with AJo but when the guy is probably 14/12, he's generally gonna have a better hand than a 20/17.

thing85 · #29 10-03-2007, 10:55 AM

Even with a PFR of 12%, most 50NL players are weak and will fold most "decent" hands to a 3bet PF. His 3bet calling range is very small.

Let's say you have AJo on the button and you make a standard 2xBB open PFR. SB folds and TAG Villain (we'll say 18/16) 3bets you in the BB for 7xBBs. What do you usually do?

thac · #30 10-03-2007, 10:59 AM

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Even with a PFR of 12%, most 50NL players are weak and will fold most "decent" hands to a 3bet PF. His 3bet calling range is very small.

Let's say you have AJo on the button and you make a standard 2xBB open PFR. SB folds and TAG Villain (we'll say 18/16) 3bets you in the BB for 7xBBs. What do you usually do?

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Depends on the villain, his 3-betting tendencies, how well he plays postflop in 3-bet pots.. there's too many factors to say 'omg fold', or 'lol call'.