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#1
11-18-2007, 03:34 PM
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Luring tells
Maybe it's because most people play their poker on the internet nowadays but I haven't seen much about tells, body language and psychology on this forum yet.
I have a question. Do you guys have any tricks to lure tells out of your opponents? I mean, do you have any specific things you say or do that you find encourages a response that often provides a correct read? If so, please divulge. This is my offering. It's not much, but it's all I have. 1)Ask the player to count his/her chips. Making your opponents think you're about to push them all-in (or, if they've already pushed, make a call) will draw out different reactions. It also enables you to test for shakey hands, relaxation levels etc etc... Also, it gives you time to think. 2) While they're counting, ask them how they're feeling, or if they're bluffing, or want a call. People are often poor multi-taskers. If they're counting chips, responding to you're questions (even if they don't talk, they are still considering what you've just asked), contemplating your next move and trying to maintain their poker face all at the same time, it is quite likely they will slip up somewhere along the line. Please, let us share our psychology secrets. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] 
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#2
11-18-2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: Luring tells
There are lots of angle shoots that can lure people to give away their intentions or the strength of their hand. I don't recommend it personally.
Mike Caro's book of poker tells gives lots of good information about picking up information, mostly from a passive viewpoint, not via inducing tells, although there are some interesting tidbits about inducing tells. * When your opponent seems to be considering a bet and you'd rather he checked, start to pick up chips like you're auto-calling. If he still bets, fold. * When you'd like to induce a bluff, hold your cards as if you're planning to auto-muck them. Maybe he'll decide you'll fold to any bet. His book is worth reading and there is a kind of funny in a cheesy way video associated with it also. The chip-count thing is a time honored no limit tradition. Personally I've never gotten much out of it. Personally, I don't answer it. I don't really like to talk during hands.
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#3
11-18-2007, 11:56 PM
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Re: Luring tells
There is nothing an opp can ask you that you must do other than open your hands/arms up so your chips can be seen. I won't allow an opp to get me to talk, answer a question, or do anything. It's the dealers job to answer his count question. I never respond regardless if I'm bluffing, marginal, or have the nuts.
If I'm doing something prior to the start of the hand, I'll sometimes stop. If I don't stop preflop, I continue throughout the hand doing what I was doing. Eating a sandwich, punching BR data into my PDA, in a conversation, whatever. I don't want to give the opp anything if I can help it. I was in a tough spot for most of my chips with a good hand against a good but aggressive player on my left (he had pos on the hand). We both had deep stacks. I had called his probably big pair/two big card raise (1-3NL live) with a gapped connector, the flop came giving me a straight but there were two clubs. I bet about 70% of the pot, he raised, I called and was still reading I was ahead. I'm not afraid to let another card come off often. Another club came on 4th. Not being a mouse, I bet 3/4 pot again. He called, (remember this guy was agressive), I felt he might be setting me up for bluff on the next street and I was worried just a little about the flush, I must be honest. River card was a blank, I think the effective chip stacks were around $300 remaining. I couldn't give this guy anything here but a top pair hand. I bet $100, he moved in. I thought about it for some time. I looked at him and asked if he would show the hand if I folded. He answered quickly I had to "pay to see". I insta called. I had decided before I asked that I was calling for sure if he answered thusly and if he did anything else I still had a tough decision because I respected him as one of the best players at the table yet I felt good about my read that I was ahead. He turned over a K of clubs and said "I have a flush." NEVER let go of your hand before your shown for certain your beat. I was showing my straight, I counted to about 3 mentally then chirped to the dealer SHIP IT! As I knew he was beat. He flipped up the other K (sympathy show)got up and left. The whole table dicussed the hand for some time and the angle he used to try to get me to muck. I consider this a cheating incident certainly. The point is I did ask the question to illicit a tell. I had been playing with him for 4 to 6 hours, he had shown a number of hands at the end, bluffs included. He had been avoiding playing pots with me so I feel he respected my game. We had been having a friendly and pleasant conversation for some time. I felt he'd certainly have no problem showing me a winner but wouldn't want to show "me" a big bluff on this very big hand. This was my reasoning for deciding to test him with a question. This was the biggest pot of the session and made for a nice night. In retrospect, I wouldn't insta call if I used something like this again. I'd wait a bit and maybe do something to try to camoflauge why I made the decision. That same question now against any one of those players might not be effective now or might be used effectively against me. Dave
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#4
11-19-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: Luring tells
[ QUOTE ]
Mike Caro's book of poker tells [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that was actually the first poker book I ever read (back when I thought maths and poker were only loosely related). It is quite useful... for some reason, I've found it particularly useful in Omaha... and I guess it's seen as the definitive book, which is why there's not much other literature on the same subject. If anyone knows any other books, that would be very cool. As for the tale above, sounds like the guy you were playing against was, what I like to call, a F"£%^&% A%^@#*^. Glad you won the hand and I'm glad you didn't muck. At least he'll know better next time and maybe have a bit of trouble getting a game with you guys in the future. I'm interested in luring tells for one reason: I want to be doing as much I can to win the game. The TV player who does this to the best effect, I think, is Black (sorry, I can't remember his first name right now - bit drunk), the Irish guy who wears his glasses upside down. He never talks unless he wants information, but when he wants it he usually gets it.
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#6
11-19-2007, 07:46 PM
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Re: Luring tells
It's true that some people have very strong reverse tells. It sometimes takes a while to establish a pattern, it helps if you observe while you're not playing, and try to guess their strength.
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#7
11-21-2007, 06:57 AM
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Re: Luring tells
I play small stakes limit so take this as so but when I hit a nut flush I act that like that was the worst card ever, I don't over do it and make it obvious and people always go for it. Some even more then once.
But normally things like that or acting like you are going to fold/bet work only once. I play a guy in a home game that if he picks up his chips like he is going to bet then checks I know he missed and has nothing. It is so bad I want to tell him but I don't know if everybody else is on to it or not. And as far as asking someone if they want a call or not? I see that as an insult to the player and the game. "It's your call, put your chips in or fold".
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#10
11-21-2007, 10:53 AM
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Re: Luring tells
Haha! Well, Btmagnet, it's not exactly like that! With practice, you can tell if someone is comfortable or not. They may say, 'I'm feeling great.' They may say, 'I be feeling better if you folded.' What they say is not as important as how they say it.
Caro himself talks about this, so it's not just some crazy notion. My invention is to ask them WHILST they're counting their chips. I have to admit, sometimes it just results in the person losing count!
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